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Old 08-27-2008, 09:31 PM   #616
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Anyway, the Obama campaign is in trouble at this point.

They seemingly haven't seen much uplift in the polls from the combined VP announcement, Hilary's endorsement and the Democrats' conference.

Of course, there is still much to play for.
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Old 08-27-2008, 09:32 PM   #617
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I don't care if McCain is the reincarnation of Gen. George S. Patton. It doesn't make him inherently more qualified to be president. Ulysses S. Grant was the leading U.S. general of the Civil War, and it still didn't prevent him from being one of the worst presidents in American history.

It seems like every presidential election is little more than a reenactment of the "Appeal to Authority" logical fallacy.
And while I agree with you completely, I know you have enough intelligence to say that the left and right both distort the truth to get elected.

To claim or insuate that McCain is more dishonest than Obama is just plain - dishonest.
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Old 08-27-2008, 09:32 PM   #618
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I don't care if McCain is the reincarnation of Gen. George S. Patton. It doesn't make him inherently more qualified to be president. Ulysses S. Grant was the leading U.S. general of the Civil War, and it still didn't prevent him from being one of the worst presidents in American history.

Exactly. I have a friend from med school who is in the Navy. Stand-up guy. Virtuous, cares about mankind, loves his country, will always do what his heart tells him is right. Should he run for President thirty years from now, I've seen evidence that he's got the mettle.

I also have two friends from high school who've been in the Marines since graduating 10 years ago. They've fought in Iraq & Afghanistan. They have a ton of medals, another's been written up in Newsweek for a heroic act he performed in Iraq. But you know what? They're both assholes. Chumps. Dickheads. I don't give two shits that they've been in the military for the last ten years, especially as they've done it to "see the world" and because they didn't know what else to do after high school---not for some amazing "love of country." They can serve for 50 years for all I care, withstand capture and torment all they want, and it won't make any difference to me.

Think of me what you will, but serving in the military doesn't erase any dickhead character traits or ideological flaws for me.

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not one iota of falsehood?

riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down

is not a true representation of

Piloting his 23rd bombing mission over North Vietnam, when his A-4E Skyhawk was shot down by a missile over Hanoi.
Somehow, I fail to see what falsehood you've pointed out.
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Old 08-27-2008, 09:40 PM   #619
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And while I agree with you completely, I know you have enough intelligence to say that the left and right both distort the truth to get elected.

To claim or insuate that McCain is more dishonest than Obama is just plain - dishonest.
I have neither claimed nor insinuated anything about McCain's honesty. I'm pretty sure he thinks he's going to be a great president and his intentions are probably just as good as Bush's have been. That certainly does not mean that he will be great, just because he says he will be. At some point, we have to look beyond the flashy displays of patriotism and militaristic bravado and ask ourselves who we will be more comfortable with as president.

Frankly, McCain scares me just as much as Bush, and he has said or done nothing at all to prove otherwise. "Military experience" be damned.
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Old 08-27-2008, 09:48 PM   #620
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I find the celebration of that post to be so disturbing, it is nauseating...

Seriously, you accuse the right of lying and distorting and celebrate this. I am leaning towards Obama. If you believe that the left does not play the same game...then step back, and take a look at it. It happens from both the left and the right.

McCain, is a flawed as Obama, a man who associated with an individual responsible for the cold blooded murder of a Boston Cop. A man he calls friend.

Aren't we all guilty of our own distortions and lies? Or is it just in here, where if the man does not match our belief systems, we get to say shite like this.

It may be time to retire....I am not sure I can last the election in here. Every time I come here I want to vote McCain because of these types of posts.
Would largely agree, and I also favour Obama.

The left seem to go for the cheap shot scattergun approach an awful lot in here recently.

It is not just one or two, there are three or four people doing it.
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Old 08-27-2008, 11:18 PM   #621
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Anyway, the Obama campaign is in trouble at this point.

They seemingly haven't seen much uplift in the polls from the combined VP announcement, Hilary's endorsement and the Democrats' conference.

Of course, there is still much to play for.

It will take a few more days for the polls to really react to the Democratic convention. We probably won't know for sure what the effect has been until this weekend. But, Friday McCain comes out with his VP announcement, and then its the Republicans turn starting Monday.
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Old 08-27-2008, 11:33 PM   #622
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It is complete and utter bull to say the Obama camp has not done it.


we are talking about a difference in degree.

show me a political ad done by Obama that is even in the same ballpark as the "tiny" political ad nonsense just run by McCain.

he's run the most nasty, petty, vile, small-minded campaign i've ever seen. all they do is mock Obama. that's it. that's the basis of their campaign. that, and that John McCain is a POW.
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Old 08-27-2008, 11:38 PM   #623
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I also have two friends from high school who've been in the Marines since graduating 10 years ago. They've fought in Iraq & Afghanistan. They have a ton of medals, another's been written up in Newsweek for a heroic act he performed in Iraq. But you know what? They're both assholes. Chumps. Dickheads. I don't give two shits that they've been in the military for the last ten years, especially as they've done it to "see the world" and because they didn't know what else to do after high school---not for some amazing "love of country." They can serve for 50 years for all I care, withstand capture and torment all they want, and it won't make any difference to me.




to think that military experience somehow trumps any other sort of experience is crap thought.

i know lots of veterans. i see lots of people where i work walking around with missing limbs. unlike other posters, i actually SEE the effects of the Iraq debacle on the lives of those who've fought in this war. i admire their courage, i respect their sacrifice.

in no way, shape, or form do i think this makes them BETTER than anyone else, i do not think it makes them SMARTER than anyone else, i do not think it makes them MORE QUALIFIED than anyone else to understand complex issues.
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Old 08-27-2008, 11:48 PM   #624
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It will take a few more days for the polls to really react to the Democratic convention. We probably won't know for sure what the effect has been until this weekend. But, Friday McCain comes out with his VP announcement, and then its the Republicans turn starting Monday.


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Old 08-27-2008, 11:59 PM   #625
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Originally Posted by Dreadsox View Post
I find the celebration of that post to be so disturbing, it is nauseating...

Seriously, you accuse the right of lying and distorting and celebrate this. I am leaning towards Obama. If you believe that the left does not play the same game...then step back, and take a look at it. It happens from both the left and the right.

McCain, is a flawed as Obama, a man who associated with an individual responsible for the cold blooded murder of a Boston Cop. A man he calls friend.

Aren't we all guilty of our own distortions and lies? Or is it just in here, where if the man does not match our belief systems, we get to say shite like this.

It may be time to retire....I am not sure I can last the election in here. Every time I come here I want to vote McCain because of these types of posts.
Dread, just so you know, my post, while certainly snarky, is extremely close to McCain's actual response (or dodge, rather) to questions about not knowing how many houses he owned. And he's used his POW status as a dodge on quite a few occasions, and should be rightly called out for it.
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Old 08-28-2008, 12:17 AM   #626
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Dread, just so you know, my post, while certainly snarky, is extremely close to McCain's actual response (or dodge, rather) to questions about not knowing how many houses he owned. And he's used his POW status as a dodge on quite a few occasions, and should be rightly called out for it.


he's making a mockery of his actual experience by using it as a trump card on *every* issue, from Iraq to the number of homes he owns.

and let's not forget for a single moment how the Republicans mocked John Kerry's service in Vietnam.

again: THERE IS NO COMPARISON. the depths to which the Republicans routinely sink has no democratic comparison.

and they continue to do so because they keep getting elected.

only we can make them stop.
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Old 08-28-2008, 12:18 AM   #627
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Hopefully Gustav won't be as bad as projected. You can count on some Democrats to try and exploit any damage that might be done though.
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Old 08-28-2008, 12:24 AM   #628
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Hopefully Gustav won't be as bad as projected. You can count on some Democrats to try and exploit any damage that might be done though.


heckuva job, STING.
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Old 08-28-2008, 12:52 AM   #629
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and let's not forget for a single moment how the Republicans mocked John Kerry's service in Vietnam.
.
since you are for not forgetting
for a single moment even

then I am sure you recall John McCain spoke out against the Swift Boat ads against John Kerry in 2004 and even asked Bush to stop them.
Bush and Cheney responded that they had no control over these 535? groups.

Also, during the 2004 election John McCain was asked on national t v (Larry King, I think) if John Kerry was qualified to be Commander In Chief?

He responded without hesitation, "Yes."

The Conservatives, A M talk hosts went bonkers.
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Old 08-28-2008, 12:57 AM   #630
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since you are for not forgetting
for a single moment even

then I am sure you recall John McCain spoke out against the Swift Boat ads against John Kerry in 2004 and even asked Bush to stop them.
Bush and Cheney responded that they had no control over these 535? groups.

Also, during the 2004 election John McCain was asked on national t v (Larry King, I think) if John Kerry was qualified to be Commander In Chief?

He responded without hesitation, "Yes."

The Conservatives, A M talk hosts went bonkers.

and how sad that the John McCain of 2008 would be unrecognizable to the John McCain of 2000, or even 2004.

the John McCain who said that there was a special place in Hell for Karl Rove after what he did to McCain and his adopted daughter, Bridget, in the SC primaries of 2000.

Maverick? no. it's all an image. it was carefully constructed in the wake of the Keating 5 scandal. it's all smoke and mirrors. now, more than ever.
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