US 08 Presidential Campaign General Discussion Thread #7 - Page 41 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 08-27-2008, 07:28 PM   #601
ONE
love, blood, life
 
namkcuR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Kettering, Ohio
Posts: 10,290
Local Time: 05:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strongbow View Post
John McCain's POW experience is not something Democrats can just dismiss. In addition, remember that John McCain served as a Naval officer on active duty for a full 23 years of his life. Thats more active military service than any previous President in history except Ike and Zachery Taylor. Unfortunately, these facts get lost in the labling shuffle.
Do you just miss the point on purpose for fun? Nobody is speaking negatively of his POW experience or his military experience. It is the fact that he is using it as a response every time anybody calls him out for anything. Anything he ever does or says wrong, he responds with, 'oh, but I was a POW, for five years I didn't have a table, a chair, etc'. It's terrible that he had to go through that, but it is 1000000% IRRELEVANT TO MOST OF THESE THINGS, AND IT MOST CERTAINLY DOES NOT EXCUSE HIM FROM THEM.
__________________

__________________
namkcuR is offline  
Old 08-27-2008, 07:32 PM   #602
Refugee
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,943
Local Time: 10:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by namkcuR View Post
Do you just miss the point on purpose for fun? Nobody is speaking negatively of his POW experience or his military experience. It is the fact that he is using it as a response every time anybody calls him out for anything. Anything he ever does or says wrong, he responds with, 'oh, but I was a POW, for five years I didn't have a table, a chair, etc'. It's terrible that he had to go through that, but it is 1000000% IRRELEVANT TO MOST OF THESE THINGS, AND IT MOST CERTAINLY DOES NOT EXCUSE HIM FROM THEM.
Did it ever occur to you that I was making my own point? In addition, given the type of attacks that have been made on him it is definitely appropriate for McCain to mention his experience. The idea that anyone would try to paint McCain as being out of touch is outrageous.
__________________

__________________
Strongbow is offline  
Old 08-27-2008, 07:40 PM   #603
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 11:50 PM
For someone else to mockingly incorporate McCain's POW experiences into a joke is quite different than for he himself to overuse and even exploit them to deflect criticism.
__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline  
Old 08-27-2008, 07:42 PM   #604
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Utoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Lovetown
Posts: 8,343
Local Time: 06:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strongbow View Post
John McCain's POW experience is not something Democrats can just dismiss. In addition, remember that John McCain served as a Naval officer on active duty for a full 23 years of his life. Thats more active military service than any previous President in history except Ike and Zachery Taylor. Unfortunately, these facts get lost in the labling shuffle.
"I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president." -- General Wesley Clark



And as much as the McCain camp huffed and hawed over the tact of that statement, there is not one iota of falsehood in it.
__________________
Utoo is offline  
Old 08-27-2008, 08:59 PM   #605
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 05:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by namkcuR View Post
No, what McCain is doing is way beyond anything Obama has done in the discussion of lying to and attempting to manipulate the people through deceit. Obama has never intentionally twisted someone else's words SO much in an attempt to pull one over on the people who are dumb enough to fall for it. Never. "

Well, I suggest you go to fact check - non partisan website - and take a look at how many each of them distorted.

It is complete and utter bull to say the Obama camp has not done it.
__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 08-27-2008, 09:01 PM   #606
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 05:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utoo View Post
"I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president." -- General Wesley Clark



And as much as the McCain camp huffed and hawed over the tact of that statement, there is not one iota of falsehood in it.

Nor does hanging out with cop killers and calling them friends. There is not one iota of falsehood in that either...

But in many people's minds it may make him less qualified than McCain.
__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 08-27-2008, 09:03 PM   #607
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 05:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yolland View Post
For someone else to mockingly incorporate McCain's POW experiences into a joke is quite different than for he himself to overuse and even exploit them to deflect criticism.
Please explain to me how it is different? I may come to inderstand what is humorous about it....

Maybe I can learn to laugh with the forum...
__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 08-27-2008, 09:18 PM   #608
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 02:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utoo View Post
"I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president." -- General Wesley Clark



And as much as the McCain camp huffed and hawed over the tact of that statement, there is not one iota of falsehood in it.
not one iota of falsehood?

riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down

is not a true representation of

Piloting his 23rd bombing mission over North Vietnam, when his A-4E Skyhawk was shot down by a missile over Hanoi.



Quote:
John McCain's capture and imprisonment began on October 26, 1967. He was flying his 23rd bombing mission over North Vietnam, when his A-4E Skyhawk was shot down by a missile over Hanoi. McCain fractured both arms and a leg, and then nearly drowned, when he parachuted into Truc Bach Lake in Hanoi. After he regained consciousness, a crowd attacked him, crushed his shoulder with a rifle butt, and bayoneted him.[30] Lieutenant Commander McCain was then transported to Hanoi's main Hoa Lo Prison, nicknamed the "Hanoi Hilton".

Although McCain was badly wounded, his captors refused to treat his injuries, instead beating and interrogating him to get information, and he was given medical care only when the North Vietnamese discovered that his father was a top admiral. His status as a prisoner of war (POW) made the front pages of major newspapers.

McCain spent six weeks in the hospital while receiving marginal care.[30] Now having lost 50 pounds (23 kg), in a chest cast, and with his hair turned white, McCain was sent to a different camp on the outskirts of Hanoi[36] in December 1967, into a cell with two other Americans who did not expect him to live a week. In March 1968, McCain was put into solitary confinement, where he would remain for two years.

In mid–1968, McCain's father was named commander of all U.S. forces in the Vietnam theater, and McCain was offered early release.[39] The North Vietnamese made that offer because they wanted to appear merciful for propaganda purposes, and also wanted to show other POWs that elites like McCain were willing to be treated preferentially. McCain turned down the offer of repatriation; he would only accept the offer if every man taken in before him was released as well.

In August 1968, a program of severe torture began on McCain. He was subjected to rope bindings and repeated beatings every two hours, at the same time as he was suffering from dysentery. Further injuries led to the beginning of a suicide attempt, which was stopped by guards. After four days, McCain made an anti-American propaganda "confession". He has always felt that his statement was dishonorable, but as he would later write, "I had learned what we all learned over there: Every man has his breaking point. I had reached mine."His injuries left him permanently incapable of raising his arms above his head. He subsequently received two to three beatings per week because of his continued refusal to sign additional statements. Other American POWs were similarly tortured and maltreated in order to extract "confessions" and propaganda statements.


McCain refused to meet with various anti-war groups seeking peace in Hanoi, wanting to give neither them nor the North Vietnamese a propaganda victory.[47] From late 1969 onward, treatment of McCain and many of the other POWs became more tolerable,[48] while McCain continued to be an active resister against the camp authorities.[49] McCain and other prisoners cheered the B-52 Stratofortress-led U.S. "Christmas Bombing" campaign of December 1972, which they viewed as a forceful measure to push North Vietnam to terms.

Altogether, McCain was held as a prisoner of war in North Vietnam for five and a half years. He was finally released from captivity on March 14, 1973.
__________________
deep is offline  
Old 08-27-2008, 09:18 PM   #609
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 11:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreadsox View Post
Please explain to me how it is different? I may come to inderstand what is humorous about it....

Maybe I can learn to laugh with the forum...
No--I was agreeing with you. I wasn't laughing either.
__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline  
Old 08-27-2008, 09:19 PM   #610
Refugee
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,943
Local Time: 10:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utoo View Post
"I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president." -- General Wesley Clark



And as much as the McCain camp huffed and hawed over the tact of that statement, there is not one iota of falsehood in it.
That was one thing that happened in McCain's 23 year active duty military career. The dismissal and reduction of McCain's 23 year military career into a sentence like that speaks to the point I was making above. Its simply pathetic and ignorant.

Millions of Americans and the majority of veterans do not agree with former General Wesley Clark and will be voting for McCain in November.
__________________
Strongbow is offline  
Old 08-27-2008, 09:22 PM   #611
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 05:50 PM
I don't care if McCain is the reincarnation of Gen. George S. Patton. It doesn't make him inherently more qualified to be president. Ulysses S. Grant was the leading U.S. general of the Civil War, and it still didn't prevent him from being one of the worst presidents in American history.

It seems like every presidential election is little more than a reenactment of the "Appeal to Authority" logical fallacy.
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 08-27-2008, 09:25 PM   #612
Refugee
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,943
Local Time: 10:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by melon View Post
I don't care if McCain is the reincarnation of Gen. George S. Patton. It doesn't make him inherently more qualified to be president. Ulysses S. Grant was the leading U.S. general of the Civil War, and it still didn't prevent him from being one of the worst presidents in American history.
It is apart of McCain's life experience and must be something that every intelligent and serious voter should consider when deciding who to vote for in the fall. It is definitely not something that can be pushed to the side or dismissed, especially when the country is in the middle of two wars.
__________________
Strongbow is offline  
Old 08-27-2008, 09:29 PM   #613
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 05:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yolland View Post
No--I was agreeing with you. I wasn't laughing either.

I understand that, but I do not see the joke. Maybe I am blinded by my military experience....
__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 08-27-2008, 09:30 PM   #614
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 05:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
not one iota of falsehood?

riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down

is not a true representation of

Piloting his 23rd bombing mission over North Vietnam, when his A-4E Skyhawk was shot down by a missile over Hanoi.
Deep, come on now - there is humor in this somewhere.
__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 08-27-2008, 09:30 PM   #615
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 02:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by melon View Post
I don't care if McCain is the reincarnation of Gen. George S. Patton. It doesn't make him inherently more qualified to be president. Ulysses S. Grant was the leading U.S. general of the Civil War, and it still didn't prevent him from being one of the worst presidents in American history.

It seems like every presidential election is little more than a reenactment of the "Appeal to Authority" logical fallacy.

I don't disagree

Bill Clinton had zero experience with military service and was a very good President.

GW Bush had some military experience in the Texas Air Reserve before he went AWOL and he has been a terrible President.

Wesley Clark's description of McCain's experience is crap.
__________________

__________________
deep is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com