US 08 Presidential Campaign General Discussion Thread #7

[U2democrat]

My Leading Change professor likes to tell Biden stories He worked with him on the Foreign Relations committee and knows him very well (he knows McCain and Obama too but not as well as Biden).

 

[deep]

Nobody knows Biden like Biden.

Just give him an hour, he'll tell you.

 

[Irvine511]

well, kids, it looks like the Republicans are going to take the world by the horns and focus in on what is certainly the more pressing issue in this country, the issue that matters most, whether it's peace on earth or safety at home and strength abroad and anything else, *this* issue trumps all:

Thompson Speech Hits Media on Palin, Obama on Abortion

Fred Thompson will forcefully defend the selection of Sarah Palin tonight in a speech Republicans are characterizing as "red meat." He will argue that the feeding frenzy over Palin's is the result of "panic" from the Democrat-friendly mainstream media.

"What a breath of fresh air Governor Sarah Palin is. She is from a small town, with small town values, but that's not good enough for those folks who are attacking her and her family. Let's be clear, the selection of Governor Palin has the other side and their friends in the media in a state of panic. She is a courageous, successful, reformer, who is not afraid to take on the establishment."

Thompson will also criticize Barack Obama's answer on abortion from his recent appearance at Rick Warren's Saddleback Church. Warren had asked: "Now, let’s deal with abortion. 40 million abortions since Roe v. Wade. you know, as a pastor I have to deal with this all of the time. All of the pain and all of the conflicts. I know this is a very complex issue. 40 million abortions. At what point does a baby get human rights in your view?"

Obamas responded: "Well, I think that whether you are looking at it from a theological perspective or a scientific perspective, answering that question with specificity, you know, is above my pay grade."

Thompson will criticize Obama for dodging the issue: "We need a President, and Vice President, who will take the federal bureaucracy by the scruff of the neck and give it a good shaking. And we need a President who doesn't think that the protection of the unborn or a newly born baby is above his pay grade."

The bulk of Thompson's speech will be a testimonial on behalf of John McCain, his character and his leadership. John McCain has "the kind of character that civilizations from the beginning of history have sought in their leaders."

yay! a culture war! because *that's* what matters most in 2008.

 

[anitram]

So they're losing the women by nearly 15 points to Obama and this is how they plan on getting them back?

Is Fred Thompson going to stay awake for the whole speech? Remember when he was gonna save the Republican party?

 

[namkcuR]

well, kids, it looks like the Republicans are going to take the world by the horns and focus in on what is certainly the more pressing issue in this country, the issue that matters most, whether it's peace on earth or safety at home and strength abroad and anything else, *this* issue trumps all:





yay! a culture war! because *that's* what matters most in 2008.

It is scary that he was once considered the GOP frontrunner.

 

[U2DMfan]

Obama spokesperson Mark Bubriski said today that Palin supported a "Nazi sympathizer"

And it goes by without so much as a fart in the wind.

Yet we are still getting the Palin-daughter story regurgitated on cable news.

Our media is an embarrassment.

 

[anitram]

Are the Republicans trying to lose this election on purpose?

Phil Gramm: "If you're sitting here today, you're not economically illiterate and you're not a whiner, so I'm not worried about who you're going to vote for," the former Texas senator told attendees at a Financial Services Roundtable event in Minneapolis on the sidelines of the Republican National Convention.

 

[mobvok]

Obama spokesperson Mark Bubriski said today that Palin supported a "Nazi sympathizer"

And it goes by without so much as a fart in the wind.

Yet we are still getting the Palin-daughter story regurgitated on cable news.

Our media is an embarrassment.

Could you elaborate on the context of that?

 

[deep]

She is a Republican.

Republican = Nazi

check - MoveOn.org or DailyKos or ANSWER​

 

[U2DMfan]

Could you elaborate on the context of that?

Sure.

They were trying to make Palin look bad by saying she supported Pat Buchanan in 2000. Which I don't think is true in the first place but I am not 100% certain.Then Bubriski said something to the effect of "many Jews think he is a Nazi sympathizer". Which is not only incorrect in the first place, it's used as a tool to beat Palin down with.

By saying "many Jews think..." they take the onus off themselves as the perpetrators of such a slanderous remark. And this isn't some Daily Kos hack, this is a campaign spokesperson.

It's quite disgusting if you ask me to say that about anybody.
They are using it to their political advantage.
And fine, if someone wants to say "well, it's true!!!" I disagree and there is no need to argue it right now but the point being, that the Obama camp is using that perception as a tool to beat Palin with, so they are essentially saying "we agree" although they pass the onus.

It's almost Fox Newsian 'Barack Obama is a muslim?
Where they can say whatever they want by tossing in a '?'

Overall, the point is, nobody is making it even the slightest issue, while talk about a pregnant girl seems to be the most important news event of the day.

 

[anitram]

They were trying to make Palin look bad by saying she supported Pat Buchanan in 2000. Which I don't think is true in the first place but I am not 100% certain.Then Bubriski said something to the effect of "many Jews think he is a Nazi sympathizer". Which is not only incorrect in the first place, it's used as a tool to beat Palin down with.

I haven't read up on a bunch of this but I'm pretty sure she did support Buchanan in 2000.

As for what "many Jews think" - well I don't think you can just state that as incorrect. My former supervisor and his supervisor, both Jewish, happened to think pretty much exactly that of Buchanan and could recite a half a dozen examples supporting that view. One of them was Israeli-born, the other wasn't, for what it's worth.

 

[U2DMfan]

I have to say though, I haven't seen any cable news all day until about 90 minutes ago, and I've been switching around and it's more of the same kind of crap.

I wanted to make the point "this is why we hate the media" not that there was an inherent bias to talking about the one story over the other. But that the most scandalous story would always get the most play.

 

[U2DMfan]

I haven't read up on a bunch of this but I'm pretty sure she did support Buchanan in 2000.

As for what "many Jews think" - well I don't think you can just state that as incorrect. My former supervisor and his supervisor, both Jewish, happened to think pretty much exactly that of Buchanan and could recite a half a dozen examples supporting that view. One of them was Israeli-born, the other wasn't, for what it's worth.

You are being disingenuous.

I'm not saying that some Jews don't believe exactly that, I'm saying they are wrong to believe that. Disagree with me or not, it doesn't matter AS I SAID.

"many Jews believe Moses parted the Red Sea" is not an incorrect statement to make, but if I said that I didn't think it was true, are you saying that I would be incorrect?

It would become an issue of different perceptions.
They are co-opting this perception for their own political gain.

Just say "I am fine with it as long as it doesn't hurt my guy" next time.

 

[anitram]

You are being disingenuous.

I'm not saying that some Jews don't believe exactly that, I'm saying they are wrong to believe that.

I'm not being disingenuous. The way you wrote that paragraph, it wasn't clear at all what you were saying:

Bubriski said something to the effect of "many Jews think he is a Nazi sympathizer". Which is not only incorrect in the first place

The way you wrote it, the suggestion was that what Babrinski said was incorrect and that is how I read it.

 

[U2DMfan]

Fair enough, I could have been more clear but I was typing fast.
I apologize for calling you disingenuous.

I am not even comfortable at all as a white male to make such generalizations about minority groups and I would expect that the Obama camp would certainly be sensitive to that. The fact that they would readily use such a slanderous generalization merely as a tool against Palin is pretty egregious if you ask me but nobody in the media seems to care. That was my whole point.

I'll leave it alone. Good day, martina.

 

[anitram]

Heaven knows I've typed things that made less sense here!

 

[mobvok]

Sure.

They were trying to make Palin look bad by saying she supported Pat Buchanan in 2000. Which I don't think is true in the first place but I am not 100% certain.Then Bubriski said something to the effect of "many Jews think he is a Nazi sympathizer". Which is not only incorrect in the first place, it's used as a tool to beat Palin down with.

By saying "many Jews think..." they take the onus off themselves as the perpetrators of such a slanderous remark. And this isn't some Daily Kos hack, this is a campaign spokesperson.

It's quite disgusting if you ask me to say that about anybody.
They are using it to their political advantage.
And fine, if someone wants to say "well, it's true!!!" I disagree and there is no need to argue it right now but the point being, that the Obama camp is using that perception as a tool to beat Palin with, so they are essentially saying "we agree" although they pass the onus.

It's almost Fox Newsian 'Barack Obama is a muslim?
Where they can say whatever they want by tossing in a '?'

Overall, the point is, nobody is making it even the slightest issue, while talk about a pregnant girl seems to be the most important news event of the day.

Ugh- why would the Obama spokesman even say that? They're implicitly calling all Buchanan voters Nazi sympathizers, too. And why would they release something unless they wanted it to be put into the mainstream- god knows every McCain release mentions "celebrity" because they're trying to hammer a point home- am I really supposed to believe she's a closet Nazi?

 

[yolland]

Mark Bubriski works in communications for Obama's Florida campaign; his statement, apparently taken from an email he sent to the Miami Herald, was "Palin was a supporter of Pat Buchanan, a right-winger, or as many Jews call him--a Nazi sympathizer". I'm almost certain Bubriski was intentionally lifting this phrase from Robert Wexler, a Jewish US Representative (D-Boca Raton, FL) who called Buchanan exactly that when noting Palin's alleged support of Buchanan a few days ago. (Wexler was immediately attacked as "an embarrassment to all Jews" by Ben Graber, another Florida Jewish Democrat currently running against him--you'd think that would've tipped Bubriski off that maybe this wasn't the smartest remark for an Obama campaign official to go around parroting, but I guess not.)

No, Palin didn't support Buchanan--she supported Forbes that year; some trigger-happy blogger digging through Alaska news archives found an old story about Palin having worn a Buchanan button when Buchanan visited Wasilla and jumped to the 'obvious' conclusion; unfortunately, the blogger failed to note the same paper's followup story, in which Palin clarified that she'd also worn buttons for other visiting presidential candidates who offered them as a welcoming gesture, and that she didn't endorse Buchanan. (Though apparently Buchanan himself was under the impression she'd supported him until the McCain campaign corrected him...)

I've never personally heard anyone call Buchanan a 'Nazi sympathizer' before this, though he's often called anti-Semitic and/or anti-Israel and is certainly widely disliked and distrusted in the Jewish community.

Normally I'd predict a campaign employee would be fired for saying something that injudicious, though the fact Bubriski could claim he was only repeating the words of a Jewish Congressman might complicate things.

 

[U2isthebest]

So, kids, did I miss anything exciting while I was letting the fine customers of Kohl's know how much further in debt they're about to go?

 

[shart1780]

McCain's wife sure is pretty.

 

[oceane]

Obama will be on O'Reilly Thursday night. I can't wait to see this!

Too bad it will be during McCain's acceptance speech. First, I don't think it's nice to try to distract away from his speech and second, more people would have watched had it been on another night.

Still, I'm thinking this can only be good for Obama. Reaching to a new audience...

Obama yes to Murdoch's Fox news grilling | World news | guardian.co.uk

 

[2861U2]

Obama will be on O'Reilly Thursday night. I can't wait to see this!

Too bad it will be during McCain's acceptance speech. First, I don't think it's nice to try to distract away from his speech and second, more people would have watched had it been on another night.

Still, I'm thinking this can only be good for Obama. Reaching to a new audience...

Obama yes to Murdoch's Fox news grilling | World news | guardian.co.uk

So McCain announcing his VP on Thursday night would have been completely rude to Obama, but Obama thinks this is acceptable?

Got it.

 

[U2isthebest]

So McCain announcing his VP on Thursday night would have been completely rude to Obama, but Obama thinks this is acceptable?

Got it.

Um, I'm pretty sure Fox is going to show McCain's acceptance speech like every other network.

 

[jesseu2]

I got some beef to spill here with Republican's!

It really annoys me when republican's say they are against pre-marital sex and are soo righteous which is bullshit... and here VP-Pick Palin's 17 year old daughter is pregnant and McCain knew about it before announcing it. The conservatives are not so conservative it appears. Well, thats just great.

Meanwhile, Obama/Biden are kicking ass and taking names

 

[2861U2]

It really annoys me when republican's say they are against pre-marital sex and are soo righteous which is bullshit... and here VP-Pick Palin's 17 year old daughter is pregnant and McCain knew about it before announcing it. The conservatives are not so conservative it appears. Well, thats just great.

I take it your family is perfect?

Yes, as conservatives we are against pre-marital sex. But when it happens, conservatives believe the proper thing to do is to keep the baby and marry the father, hopefully with a loving family supporting you, rather than killing the baby and pretending it never happened. If you want to make this an issue, be my guest. It will backfire.

Meanwhile, Obama/Biden are kicking ass and taking names

They are? I must be missing that...

 

[oceane]

Um, I'm pretty sure Fox is going to show McCain's acceptance speech like every other network.

Yes that's true, it will probably not be at the exact same time anyways. O'Reilly is usually late in the evening, no?

Still, it will detract attention from the speech (or its coverage therafter), and it's pretty obvious that's the point.

 

[Irvine511]

Yes, as conservatives we are against pre-marital sex. But when it happens, conservatives believe the proper thing to do is to keep the baby and marry the father, hopefully with a loving family supporting you, rather than killing the baby and pretending it never happened. If you want to make this an issue, be my guest. It will backfire.

is this why she's against comprehensive sex ed that's been shown to be far more effective in preventing teen pregnancy than the abstinence-only programs favored by Gov. Palin?

 

[U2democrat]

Is it November 5 yet? (Not only the day after election day but my 22nd birthday )


Tensions in campaign offices are getting really high...people are going to be so burned out after this election, if not before.

 

[2861U2]

is this why she's against comprehensive sex ed that's been shown to be far more effective in preventing teen pregnancy than the abstinence-only programs favored by Gov. Palin?

It's clear abstinence-only education doesn't work, and it has nothing to do with the Bristol story. Palin is wrong on this issue.

Another point regarding jesseu2's post above- conservatives believe in taking responsibility for your actions, and I can't think of a situation where that applies more than an unexpected pregnancy. Bristol, with her family behind her, is taking full responsibility and taking the completely proper course of action. God bless her for deciding that she's going to have to grow up quickly and for accepting that her life is going to change drastically due to her actions.

 

[Diemen]

I wonder what percentage of teen marriages end in divorce? Or rather, what percentage of forced teen marriages (I highly doubt it was the teens' idea to get married...) end in divorce?

I'm all for going through with a pregnancy and ensuring you've got a good support network around you, but I'm not crazy on the idea that the proper thing for a teenage mom or dad to do is get married right away.