US 08 Presidential Campaign General Discussion Thread #7

[anitram]

The student, family should plan for it, I did.

My 15 nieces and nephews are planning with their families, too.

My parents came to this country as refugees in their 40s.

It cost me $75K to go to law school (because professional degrees in Canada are deregulated so that we now have the American way too) and another $25K for my undergraduate degree. That one was reduced because I got a lot of scholarship money.

For law school I got some grants, about $22K of which I don't have to pay back. Thankfully I worked at a very good firm so that I could graduate with about $18K of debt.

My parents paid for my entire first degree. Considering they came to this country with the clothes on their back, I am eternally grateful. They are proud, hard-working people who sacrificed everything for my brother and I so we could go to the best schools and do multiple degrees.

They did not have the benefit of your planning. Life is not as generous to everybody.

 

[phillyfan26]

sometimes I wish I was born in Canada

you guys do a lot of things right.

Our American system is what it is.

I was in college in the 70s.


You told me a BS and BA is worthless.

Someone else told me he hoped Obama would get elected becasse that would determine if he could go to Penn State.

That it would cost $100,000.


The Government has never paid for anything beyond high school.

I worked all through high school and had two jobs when I went to college.

We don't have $100,000 to pay for college student's worthless BS and BAs.

The student, family should plan for it, I did.

My 15 nieces and nephews are planning with their families, too.


I know it is not the Canadian way.

I brought up my college example to ask questions (which Anitram answered) about how the candidates' decisions would have an effect on college financial aid and how long it would take to have an effect. I never stated that Obama would help and McCain wouldn't. I merely stated that the election could have an effect on the issue, and with my financial situation hanging in the balance right now, that even a small change could go a long way.

 

[Dreadsox]

other than Wright?

Twenty years of going to his church? That is a long long time to be associated with an extremist. A long time.

Why should I not be weighing that into my decision?

It is a LONG lapse in judgement. It must have been since now that Obama is running for president he is disasociated himself from them.

And he has exposed his children to these extremists...my goodness...as a father I have an issue with it.

 

[Diemen]

Obama was associated with Avery? Yes or no? Do you believe that bombing was an appropriate activity to engage in?

The only "association" with Ayers was that they both sat on a board for a poverty relief fund and that Ayers contributed $200 to Obama's re-election campaign. For you to insinuate that it's a troublesome "assocation" is tenuous at best. And for the record, Ayers was never convicted, and Obama was 8 years old when it happened, so... it's hardly like Obama was chumming up with an active terrorist.

AS for the MCCain POW thing? I do not think your joke was about that. I did not take it that way, and still do not.

Well my joke was about that, and I'm sorry you took it the wrong way. My intention was not to claim that McCain is a big fat liar all the time, my intention was to show that when McCain is confronted with a question that may put him in a negative light, he seems to fall back on his time as a POW to dodge the question completely while simultaneously getting a bit of a sympathy response.

In that case, we were talking about the deceipt in the "Tiny" ad, and so lying was the appropriate blank to fill in to his template for bringing up his POW status. You could take out lying and replace it with "house" and it would read almost verbatim to his actual responses.

 

[Irvine511]

Twenty years of going to his church? That is a long long time to be associated with an extremist. A long time.

Why should I not be weighing that into my decision?

It is a LONG lapse in judgement. It must have been since now that Obama is running for president he is disasociated himself from them.

And he has exposed his children to these extremists...my goodness...as a father I have an issue with it.

that's certainly your perogative.

but you're the one who wanted to stick to the issues, right?

 

[Irvine511]

In that case, we were talking about the deceipt in the "Tiny" ad, and so lying was the appropriate blank to fill in to his template for bringing up his POW status. You could take out lying and replace it with "house" and it would read almost verbatim to his actual responses.

which is why that post, for me, worked as satire.

 

[Diemen]

And he has exposed his children to these extremists...my goodness...as a father I have an issue with it.

Who are these extremists? The only one I know of that he "exposed" to his kids was Rev. Wright. Who are the other numerous extremists who he was best friends with?

 

[Se7en]

sometimes I wish I was born in Canada

you guys do a lot of things right.

Our American system is what it is.

I was in college in the 70s.


You told me a BS and BA is worthless.

Someone else told me he hoped Obama would get elected becasse that would determine if he could go to Penn State.

That it would cost $100,000.


The Government has never paid for anything beyond high school.

I worked all through high school and had two jobs when I went to college.

We don't have $100,000 to pay for college student's worthless BS and BAs.

The student, family should plan for it, I did.

My 15 nieces and nephews are planning with their families, too.


I know it is not the Canadian way.

so, my parents should have had $300,000 of disposable income lying around for the three of us?

 

[deep]

My parents came to this country as refugees in their 40s.

It cost me $75K to go to law school (because professional degrees in Canada are deregulated so that we now have the American way too) and another $25K for my undergraduate degree. That one was reduced because I got a lot of scholarship money.

For law school I got some grants, about $22K of which I don't have to pay back. Thankfully I worked at a very good firm so that I could graduate with about $18K of debt.

My parents paid for my entire first degree. Considering they came to this country with the clothes on their back, I am eternally grateful. They are proud, hard-working people who sacrificed everything for my brother and I so we could go to the best schools and do multiple degrees.

They did not have the benefit of your planning. Life is not as generous to everybody.

That is very commendable

you should be proud of your accomplishments
educationally and vocationally you are way ahead of me.

I am happy that things have worked out ok for your family.



I have my own family story.
But, I don't think it matters

I guess we all have our family stories.

I think our obligations should be:
first to ourselves.
then our families,
then others.

And we should do the best we can for all three.

 

[Dreadsox]

that's certainly your perogative.

but you're the one who wanted to stick to the issues, right?

Hey, I guess it is fair game since there is more credibility to it than your baby issue, which is based in speculation.

It really is not my issue, but, hey since the baby issue is fair game, I am guessing you will not find it out of bounds? Or is it?

 

[deep]

so, my parents should have had $300,000 of disposable income lying around for the three of us?

who said everyone gets to go to Penn St for four years?

I did not get to.

 

[Se7en]

who said everyone gets to go to Penn St for four years?

I did not get to.

so educational opportunity should be limited to one's income bracket?

 

[Irvine511]

Hey, I guess it is fair game since there is more credibility to it than your baby issue, which is based in speculation.

It really is not my issue, but, hey since the baby issue is fair game, I am guessing you will not find it out of bounds? Or is it?

here's the thing.

none of this will affect how i vote.

what i've always found interesting, since i began posting in here, is how the game is played. i toss things like this around for conversation not because i think they should affect how people vote, but because i find the process fascinating, and the calculations and gambles and decisions and the "but how will it play in Peoria" fascinating as well.

i've said, repeatedly, that what matters to me about the Palin pick is not Palin, but what it says about McCain.

McCain could have picked Al Gore, and i'd still be voting for Obama.

i understand that my tendency to want to wade into weird waters makes it easy for others to caricature me, or to make me into a totem for those they dislike,

but i don't think that's fair or accurate.

 

[Dreadsox]

With every decision people make there is a likelyhood that some will like it, some will not, and some will say who gives a shite.

I lean more towards she is a mixed bag of a decision. If he were 44 I would not be so worried about it.

 

[deep]

so educational opportunity should be limited to one's income bracket?

what would you suggest ?

 

[A_Wanderer]

that's certainly your perogative.

but you're the one who wanted to stick to the issues, right?

Being unprepared for Trinity to come out doesn't reflect well on the Obama campaign, it seems like a valid consideration.

In FYM people spun Wrights comments in light of white racism and bigotry over the decades, not justifying or excusing them, and made a point that Obama was showing strength of character not throwing Wright under the bus, until he did.

McCain didn't take to long to dissociate himself from Hagee.

 

[A_Wanderer]

The hysteria over the wombs of Sarah Palin and her daughter demonstrates exactly why this pick was a well calculated choice by the McCain campaign.

 

[Irvine511]

Being unprepared for Trinity to come out doesn't reflect well on the Obama campaign, it seems like a valid consideration.

In FYM people spun Wrights comments in light of white racism and bigotry over the decades, not justifying or excusing them, and made a point that Obama was showing strength of character not throwing Wright under the bus, until he did.

McCain didn't take to long to dissociate himself from Hagee.

mccain did so immediately *after* wright, and after he actively sought his endorsement.

as for Trinity, yes, that was the proverbial skeleton in the closet as Obama goes. but i'm sure they weight the costs and the benefits, and they turned it into an opportunity for Obama to give the finest speech on race in America, perhaps ever.

that said, the vetting process for a VP is quite, quite different than an individual declaring himself fit for the presidency.

quite different. the first rule of the VP pick is "first do no harm."

 

[INDY500]

Economy at 60-year low, says Darling. And it will get worse
The Guardian,
Saturday August 30 2008

Britain is facing "arguably the worst" economic downturn in 60 years which will be "more profound and long-lasting" than people had expected, Alistair Darling, the chancellor, tells the Guardian today.

In the government's gravest assessment of the economy, which follows a warning from a Bank of England policymaker that 2 million people could be out of work by Christmas, Darling admits he had no idea how serious the credit crunch would become.

Economic downturn. Unemployment. Credit crunch.
So, the "American dream is slipping away" because of "eight years of Bush and McCain," in England too?

 

[BVS]

McCain didn't take to long to dissociate himself from Hagee.

After he denounced him, then embraced him, then disassociate himself again...

 

[maycocksean]

A minor derailment

Can I just derail this thread for a moment to let all my favorite FYMers know that my son was born yesterday! Just couldn't keep the good news to myself and I wasn't sure how many of you read the Interference blogs.



Now, as you were. . .

 

[deep]

Can I just derail this thread for a moment to let all my favorite FYMers know that my son was born yesterday! Just couldn't keep the good news to myself and I wasn't sure how many of you read the Interference blogs.



Now, as you were. . .

congratulations !!!


this is great news

I have been thinking about you lately

I hope all is well with your baby boy and wife.

 

[deep]

Hi Sean

I went to your blog - journal

Elijah William Maycock, born Sunday, August 31, 2008 at 4:18 P.M. and weighing in at 6 lbs 14.5 oz. Welcome to the world, Elijah! Daddy loves you so much already!

Elijah is a beautiful baby boy

and you and your wife look happy and healthy !!!

all is well.

 

[BonosSaint]

Beautiful child. Beautiful name.

 

[Utoo]

i actually wasn't the first person to bring it up. i reported that, yes, it's on the blogs, and not just left wing blogs either.



sue me. it is a fact that it is a story that's going around the internet on serious, well-read blogs.

I also haven't noticed anyone here "spreading" this story. I noticed someone posted it here or discussion, and discussion ensued. What malice!

 

[Irvine511]

Can I just derail this thread for a moment to let all my favorite FYMers know that my son was born yesterday! Just couldn't keep the good news to myself and I wasn't sure how many of you read the Interference blogs.



Now, as you were. . .

 

[Irvine511]

I also haven't noticed anyone here "spreading" this story. I noticed someone posted it here or discussion, and discussion ensued. What malice!

last night certainly was "kill the messenger" night.

 

[Diemen]

Moral outrage!

last night certainly was "kill the messenger" night.

I, for one, am getting sick and tired of your gossiping, Irvine.

 

[U2DMfan]

Can I just derail this thread for a moment to let all my favorite FYMers know that my son was born yesterday! Just couldn't keep the good news to myself and I wasn't sure how many of you read the Interference blogs.



Now, as you were. . .

Will Ferrell as James Lipton: "Nicely done"

Congrats, love the name Elijah

 

[U2democrat]

I just spoke with Tim Kaine, Mark Warner, and Jim Webb. We Virginia Democrats are a pumped up group of people This state really is changing.