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Old 08-14-2008, 02:18 PM   #361
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Originally Posted by anitram View Post
The media (aka McCain's base) is slowly turning on him. I am really glad that Joe Klein of Time is calling McCain out. Regardless of the fact I disagreed with McCain always on about 95%+ of issues, at least I didn't think that he lacked character. I no longer believe he is a man of character or a man of principles. And now people are starting to notice.

.[/url]

I am glad to see that you are here to balance the right wing press.
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Old 08-14-2008, 02:20 PM   #362
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I am glad to see that you are here to balance the right wing press.
Yes, because we all know that JOE KLEIN of all people leans left. Hahaha!!
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Old 08-14-2008, 02:45 PM   #363
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Yes, because we all know that JOE KLEIN of all people leans left. Hahaha!!

You got my humor Ewwwww...New Yorker
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Old 08-14-2008, 02:53 PM   #364
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are we going to ever talk about the connections between the McCain campaign and the Georgian government? what was Saakashvili promised?


Quote:
While Aide Advised McCain, His Firm Lobbied for Georgia
Campaign Dismisses Timing of Phone Call, Contract

By Matthew Mosk and Jeffrey H. Birnbaum
Washington Post Staff Writers
Wednesday, August 13, 2008; A03

Sen. John McCain's top foreign policy adviser prepped his boss for an April 17 phone call with the president of Georgia and then helped the presumptive Republican presidential nominee prepare a strong statement of support for the fledgling republic.

The day of the call, a lobbying firm partly owned by the adviser, Randy Scheunemann, signed a $200,000 contract to continue providing strategic advice to the Georgian government in Washington.

The McCain campaign said Georgia's lobbying contract with Orion Strategies had no bearing on the candidate's decision to speak with President Mikheil Saakashvili and did not influence his statement. "The Embassy of Georgia requested the call," said campaign spokesman Brian Rogers.

But ethics experts have raised concerns about former lobbyists for foreign governments providing advice to presidential candidates about those same countries. "The question is, who is the client? Is the adviser loyal to income from a foreign client, or is he loyal to the candidate he is working for now?" said James Thurber, a lobbying expert at American University. "It's dangerous if you're getting advice from people who are very close to countries on one side or another of a conflict."

At the time of McCain's call, Scheunemann had formally ceased his own lobbying work for Georgia, according to federal disclosure reports. But he was still part of Orion Strategies, which had only two lobbyists, himself and Mike Mitchell.

Scheunemann remained with the firm for another month, until May 15, when the McCain campaign imposed a tough new anti-lobbyist policy and he was required to separate himself from the company.

Rogers said Scheunemann "receives no compensation of any type from Orion Strategies and has not since May 15, 2008." Scheunemann declined to be interviewed for this story.

As a private lobbyist trying to influence lawmakers and Bush administration staffers, Scheunemann at times relied on his access to McCain in his work for foreign clients on Capitol Hill. He and his partner reported 71 phone conversations and meetings with McCain and his top advisers since 2004 on behalf of foreign clients, including Georgia, according to forms they filed with the Justice Department.

The contacts often focused on Georgia's aspirations to join NATO and on legislative proposals, including a measure co-sponsored by McCain that supported Georgia's position on South Ossetia, one of the Georgian regions taken over by Russia this weekend.

Another measure lobbied by Orion and co-sponsored by McCain, the NATO Freedom Consolidation Act of 2006, would have authorized a $10 million grant for Georgia.

For months while McCain's presidential campaign was gearing up, Scheunemann held dual roles, advising the candidate on foreign policy while working as Georgia's lobbyist. Between Jan. 1, 2007, and May 15, 2008, the campaign paid Scheunemann nearly $70,000 to provide foreign policy advice. During the same period, the government of Georgia paid his firm $290,000 in lobbying fees.

Since 2004, Orion has collected $800,000 from the government of Georgia.

Rogers said Orion's representation of Georgia had no bearing on McCain's decision to speak with Saakashvili in April. "The Embassy of Georgia requested the call because of Georgian concerns over recent Russian actions dealing with South Ossetia and Abkhazia," he said.

McCain has said that he has worked closely with Georgia and its top officials since the mid-1990s. On the campaign trail yesterday, McCain referred to Saakashvili as a close friend.

But Rogers acknowledged that "Scheunemann and others on the foreign policy staff are involved in call requests and statements on foreign policy issues."

After the April call, McCain issued a statement that day voicing support for Georgia's position.

"We must not allow Russia to believe it has a free hand to engage in policies that undermine Georgian sovereignty," McCain said in the statement. "Georgia has acted with restraint in its response and should continue to do so."

Melanie Sloan, executive director of Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, said it may be impossible to know whether Scheunemann's advice to McCain was truly unvarnished.

"The question is, whose views are you really espousing?" Sloan said. "Are they really your own views, or are they the views that are bought and paid for by the clients of your top aides? McCain probably would be sympathetic to Georgia regardless, but having a guy like Scheunemann as a top aide raises questions."

Hari Sevugan, a spokesman for the Democratic candidate, Sen. Barack Obama, said Scheunemann's business ties to Georgia raise questions about how much he influenced McCain's position on the Georgia conflict.

"It's these sorts of appearances of a conflict of interest that are a natural consequence of having a campaign run by lobbyists, staffed by lobbyists and being ensconced in a lobbyist culture for over a quarter of a century," Sevugan said.
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Old 08-14-2008, 03:35 PM   #365
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I think McCain has a problem here. Clearly he has some ties to the Georgia government. This in conjunction with him wanting to find a new boogeyman and seem presidential likely played a role in how vehemently he responded. But the thing is, the Russians don't want to go to war here and they have little interest in annexing any territory or expanding. They were perfectly happy to enter a truce on their terms once they rolled through and humiliated the Georgian president. This isn't the fight that McCain is really looking for, but now he's smack dab in the middle of it. Sending his representatives there - what the hell? Where is Condolleezza Rice? Talk about incompetence. So he's one foot in this fight but with nothing to gain and can be made to look extremely stupid by the Russians who suddenly seem almost politically reasonable with this quick "resolution".
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Old 08-14-2008, 04:34 PM   #366
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What do you make of this?

Quote:
According to an analysis of campaign contributions by the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics, Democrat Barack Obama has received nearly six times as much money from troops deployed overseas at the time of their contributions than has Republican John McCain, and the fiercely anti-war Ron Paul, though he suspended his campaign for the Republican nomination months ago, has received more than four times McCain's haul.
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Old 08-14-2008, 04:47 PM   #367
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What do you make of this?


John McCain is a maverick who puts his country first.
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Old 08-14-2008, 05:03 PM   #368
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Well, is anyone supporting Russia in this? Is Senator Obama supporting the Russians?
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Old 08-14-2008, 05:07 PM   #369
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Well, is anyone supporting Russia in this? Is Senator Obama supporting the Russians?


is this a serious question?

i don't think anyone "supports" Russia, and the framing of the issue provoked by the question above is objectionable. i think most people realize this is more than unprovoked aggression by a totalitarian empire bend on world domination and that if Georgia falls, Poland is next.

don't forget Poland.
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Old 08-14-2008, 05:28 PM   #370
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[QUOTE=Irvine511;5371159]
Well, of course no one is supporting Russia on this. Which begs the question, why is anyone hosing McCain on this issue?"


Is Obama's position that much different?
Obama Emerges to Talk About Georgia - The Caucus Blog - NYTimes.com
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Old 08-14-2008, 05:32 PM   #371
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Have you read McCain's rhetoric here? If you think that it sounds anything like Obama's measured response, then I don't know what to tell you. Things like:

Quote:
"He told President Dimitri Medvedev and Vladimir Putin, the prime minister, that their actions would have "severe, long-term negative consequences" for their relations with the United States and Europe and outlined a plan of action for the West to isolate and punish Russia."
And:

Quote:
"...Russian aggression against Georgia is both a matter of urgent moral and strategic importance to the United States of America."
Nevermind calling for an immediate meeting of NATO. Nevermind sending a delegation of his election team to Georgia (how is this any of his business as a candidate?), etc.
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Old 08-14-2008, 05:39 PM   #372
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A few more gems from McCain on this issue:

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We, we will decide in subsequent days as whether degree of provocation and whe-- who was right and who was wrong.
Quote:
McCain has cited Russian "behavior" as justification to create a "League of Democracies" — a radical plan with a "hidden agenda" to "kill the United Nations" and one that has been "greeted with alarm by some Republican supporters and wariness by important U.S. allies."
Quote:
WASHINGTON (AFP) — Republican White House contender John McCain said Tuesday he would support Georgia's bid to join the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) if he is elected president in November.

"I would move forward at the right time with the application for membership in NATO by Georgia," McCain told Fox News television.

McCain, 71, also reiterated his call for Russia to be kicked out of the Group of Eight most industrialized nations.

"Russia no longer shares any of the values and principles of the G-8, so they should be excluded," he said.
Do any of these overreactions sound like anything Obama has been saying?
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Old 08-14-2008, 07:10 PM   #373
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for their relations with the United States and Europe
Cool, now he speaks for us also or did he at least have the decency to talk with European leaders first?


Sorry, forgot, we are just some poor socialists.
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Old 08-14-2008, 07:19 PM   #374
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Sorry, forgot, we are just some poor socialists.

And don't forget it...
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Old 08-14-2008, 07:31 PM   #375
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I won't! Less than two days and I will be free as I will have entered the United States.
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