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Old 02-12-2004, 11:53 AM   #1
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Urban Terrorism - And It's Legal!!!

American Heritage Dictionary: Terrorism: The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

Who gets to threaten force or violence against average citizens?

Unions!

Southern California has been the home to a grocery store labor dispute for the last five months. No progress has been made and until this week, there have been no talks between the parties for months.

Last night, local news showed picketers challenging and intimidating store patrons, following them to their cars, forcing signs in their faces, pushing and shoving, etc. The rally cry of the Union bosses is to "make the shopping experience unpleasant" for those who choose to shop at these grocery stores.

Unions served a great purpose 80-100 years ago. Today, they act to bring fear to everyday shoppers. It is time for a change.
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Old 02-12-2004, 12:34 PM   #2
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My grandpa was in a union. He worked as head plumber for the city for over 50 years. But I don't think he really cared for the union; when they went on strike he had to find other odd jobs. I think the last time he had to strike was 1981. Sometimes people get forced into the union because they're in the minority that has to work to support a large family no matter what the conditions.
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Old 02-12-2004, 12:58 PM   #3
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Re: Urban Terrorism - And It's Legal!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
American Heritage Dictionary: Terrorism: The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

Who gets to threaten force or violence against average citizens?

Unions!

Southern California has been the home to a grocery store labor dispute for the last five months. No progress has been made and until this week, there have been no talks between the parties for months.

Last night, local news showed picketers challenging and intimidating store patrons, following them to their cars, forcing signs in their faces, pushing and shoving, etc. The rally cry of the Union bosses is to "make the shopping experience unpleasant" for those who choose to shop at these grocery stores.

Unions served a great purpose 80-100 years ago. Today, they act to bring fear to everyday shoppers. It is time for a change.

I am SOOOOOOO sick of this strike and the tactics the striking employees have stooped to.

All I can say is that hope when they do go back to work, the shopping public treats them with the same respect they've been treating us with...NONE!
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Old 02-12-2004, 05:32 PM   #4
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What a bunch of jerks. These tactics are disgusting.
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Old 02-12-2004, 08:03 PM   #5
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I don't agree with their tactics. By acting this way they are hurting their cause greatly. They loose a lot of support that they otherwise might have.

I think that unions still play a very important role in our society, cause employers certainly aren't going to look out for the best interests. They are corporations and profit is the bottom line. It's already very difficult to find working class jobs that pay a living wage and without unions i fear that there will soon be even less.
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Old 02-13-2004, 11:00 AM   #6
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I agree, I think unions have an important role to play. Employers are into profits, period. That's why they are using so much cheap labor in China. But I do not like this behavior. It's counterproductive.
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Old 02-13-2004, 11:23 AM   #7
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It is amazing that everyone is lead to believe that Unions are for the little people against big profit oriented corporations. If anyone took a look at unions, they would realize they are just like corporations! Union bosses pull down huge salaries.

Take the grocery store workers for example. They receive $100/week strike pay (for which they must walk picket lines - no taking other full-time jobs), however, they still must pay union dues. The head of the Orange County chapter of this union continues to pull down a salary in excess of $200K! This is a cruel joke on union members.
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Old 02-13-2004, 11:24 AM   #8
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NBC, are you seriously comparing being obnoxious and pushy in a supermarket parking lot to BLOWING UP said supermarket? Your comparison is in poor taste at the least, and it strains credibility.

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Old 02-13-2004, 12:02 PM   #9
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Lighten up and think. Fear can be induced by actions other than blowing up something. It is now the stated goal of the union officials to instill fear in shoppers.
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Old 02-13-2004, 01:15 PM   #10
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Lighten up about false accusations of terrorism? In a word, no.

I was hoping you were using a bit of hyperbole to make a point that union tactics can leave a lot to be desired, and even be counterproductive. That might be a credible stance. You could have even argued that in this case, there isn't much vaild to strike about. Might be true. But that's not the choice you made. You chose to call them terrorists.

I've always liked and respected you and your views, even when I didn't agree. This has ended that, if you seriously believe that murder and shouting are the same thing.



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Old 02-13-2004, 01:19 PM   #11
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That is why I included an independent definition of terrorism. Killing people does not equal terrorism. That's murder. Threatening force or violence to create fear is terrorism.
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Old 02-13-2004, 02:33 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sherry Darling
Lighten up about false accusations of terrorism? In a word, no.

I was hoping you were using a bit of hyperbole to make a point that union tactics can leave a lot to be desired, and even be counterproductive. That might be a credible stance. You could have even argued that in this case, there isn't much vaild to strike about. Might be true. But that's not the choice you made. You chose to call them terrorists.

I've always liked and respected you and your views, even when I didn't agree. This has ended that, if you seriously believe that murder and shouting are the same thing.



sd
Sherry I think you should look at the definition or terrorism that was provided by Nbcrusader in the first post. Terrorism does not have to involve killing. I think Nbcrusader is right unions are extremely curropt and use methods of striking fear into individuals in order to get there way. I've had some experience working with unions up in the Northeast since I work in the construction industry and believe me I think Nbc's comparison is closer than you think. Unions have also had a history of having ties with the mafia and using violence to get their way.

I'm not saying every union or every individual in a union are like this. In fact many individuals join union because it's a neccesary evil.
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Old 02-13-2004, 04:34 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Fear can be induced by actions other than blowing up something.
You bet.

This administration is a perfect example.

Quote:
Originally posted by Sherry Darling
You chose to call them terrorists.
Well, organizations like the ELF/ALF are considered to be domestic terrorists and I would agree with that assessment, although they are not necessarily involved in bombing buildings or murder.
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Old 02-13-2004, 04:59 PM   #14
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In NB's defense, if I were to walk up to someone and say "I'm going to kill you" I could be arrested for making a terrorist threat, at least in California.
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Old 02-13-2004, 05:38 PM   #15
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If they are threatening to *kill* people I can see why that could be construed as terrorism. I personally wouldn't call lesser threats terrorism, although I would certainly consider this sort of behavior as very reprehensible, disgusting and totally counterproductive. My paranoia level has definitely jumped since all of that happened at the library.
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