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Old 02-13-2004, 07:02 PM   #16
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
It is amazing that everyone is lead to believe that Unions are for the little people against big profit oriented corporations. If anyone took a look at unions, they would realize they are just like corporations! Union bosses pull down huge salaries.

Take the grocery store workers for example. They receive $100/week strike pay (for which they must walk picket lines - no taking other full-time jobs), however, they still must pay union dues. The head of the Orange County chapter of this union continues to pull down a salary in excess of $200K! This is a cruel joke on union members.

I'm not saying that unions are perfect. I know that there are abuses and corruption, but if grocery workers were not union I seriously doubt they would be making much more than minimum wage with few benefits (like most service sector/retail jobs pay).

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Old 02-13-2004, 09:04 PM   #17
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Wow, NBCrusader! You can't say anything wihtout getting yourself in trouble inhere! I guess you need to be more politically correct!

For what it's worth, I agree that such harassment as that sometimes employed by modern-day union thugs is terrorism as its sole intent is to TERRORIZE people who are not heeding their cause by harrasing said people to the point of putting fear and intimidation into them, or, if they harass the WRONG person, provoking a violent, defensive reaction from that person and thus creating a spectacle of violence ("That SCAB attacked me on the picket line!").

I am not entirely against unions as I think in some instances their purpose is necessary. However, I do not think they are always right, and I sure as hell don't think they are anywhere close to being clean.

In Alabama, which is a right-to-work state, factory employees at the two (soon to be three) non-union automotive plants make higher wages and enjoy better benefits than their counterparts at the predominantly unionized steel plants up the road. Productivity and morale are higher at the auto plants, while turnover is much lower.

The executive director of Alabama's tlargest teachers union makes over $200,000 annually; this is more than the Governor or the state superintendent of schools make, and teachers in this state's public schools make anywhere from $22,000 to $48,000 annually.

Something's not right.


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Old 02-14-2004, 06:10 AM   #18
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
Unions are ...big profit oriented....
Sorry for the edit...I now agree with this.

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Old 02-14-2004, 06:15 AM   #19
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Originally posted by U2Bama
The executive director of Alabama's tlargest teachers union makes over $200,000 annually; this is more than the Governor or the state superintendent of schools make, and teachers in this state's public schools make anywhere from $22,000 to $48,000 annually.
DO not get me started. I am amazed at what the local Union Leadership makes never mind the executive leadership. ANy time I have a a problem for example:

I was the coach of the Regional and State Championship Robotics Team. I applied for a position to coach robotics during the summer for 8-14 year olds. The school system hired an uncertified person to teach it. Never mind uncertified, but they did not like teaching 3rd, 4th and fifth graders. The next year they cut the 3rd-5th graders out of the program. They never gave me an interview.

I went to the Union because I had not been given an interview, I had not been sent a letter thanking me for applying to acknowledge my application. I found out I did not get the job from the brochure that came to school to send home with the kids.

Now, you would think coaching the regional and state championship team would mean something. You would thing that working with the age group would mean something. You would thing the teching certificate and the degrees would mean something. The program got cut down the next year because this person did not want the younger kids in there. The Union would not do anything.

Or, and I love this, in Massachusetts teacher were given "PERMANENT" certificates. Everyone in the state who had been teaching before 1993, had these words on their certificates. In 1993 the state waived its magoc wand and made them NOT PERMANENT. Every teacher now has to pay money to recertify every five years. The new certificates no longer have the words permanent on them and we have to pay good money every five years to the state.

The theory was that teachers are not taking courses to keep themselves current. What a crock, I take courses all of the time because I am trying to move of the pay scale. I do not get paid based on my job performance. If all of the students in my class pass the standardized state testing, nothing happens. If you perform well at your job, get good evaluations, you are very likely to get a raise.

One final example of the uselessness of the Union. My elementary school was ranked #7 out of around 1,200 elementary schools in the state. We redistricted our town and lost a good chunk of our population of students. We gained what could be labeled a more "difficult" population into our building. Every three years the schools are graded based on the state testing. With redistricting, we dropped to #30. The other school moved up inheriting our students. The killer is, they did not move up that much, and we actually DROPPED less than they moved up. The State labeled my school (#30) a FAILING TO PERFORM because we dropped. The other school moved up was labeled a HIGH PERFORMING SCHOOL (Rank#235) Does this make sense? I am still listening to the silence on the airwaives from the union.

The Union is in the business of making $$$. I watch the younger staff get shafted in negotioations. My wife, 10 years into this career really got shafted during this negotiation. My wife, got shafted during her maternity leave for child number two. My wife was directly told she was not welcome at school in the beginning of the school year by the superintendant of schools because she was pregnant and due in the first month of school. The Union would not adress the issue. If it is not about making money for the Union forget it.

My rookie year teaching, the Union Rep came to my building and said DO NOT STUFF THOSE envelopes. We were supposed to stuff envelopes with test results home from state testing. The people in the building felt this was a secretarial job. They did not want us to stuff them. I taught my class how to fold and stuff envelopes themselves. I NEVER did it myself.

Same year my great-grandmother died A HUGE BLIZZARD was coming in the day of the wake and it was a two hour drive in good conditions to get there. I was DENIED a funeral day because she was not an IMMEDIATE relative. The Union would do nothing for me. Can you imagine.

I have NO use for the Union yet......I am waiting.....maybe someday.
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Old 02-14-2004, 06:34 AM   #20
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
Same year my great-grandmother died A HUGE BLIZZARD was coming in the day of the wake and it was a two hour drive in good conditions to get there. I was DENIED a funeral day because she was not an IMMEDIATE relative. The Union would do nothing for me. Can you imagine.
I can. This happens to gay couples all the time, because they cannot legally marry. So...just imagine...losing your significant other of 20 years or so and being told that you have no right to time off, because you weren't legally married?

Unions are the least of our worries. Our cowardly and bigoted politicians are the greatest threat.

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Old 02-14-2004, 09:59 AM   #21
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No thread hijacking Melon.

Okay, so let me clear some things up. I did read the definition of terrorism that NBC posted. And it's fine. But, as I'm sure we all know, that specific word "terrorism" has very specific applications and brings to mind and heart very specific actions which this union (one presumes) is not involved in. From what I read in NBC's original post, they are not making death threats! Were they doing that, it would certainly change the picture, as Verte says. In that case I'd join NBC in questioning the legality of those actions. (I already join him in questioning their efficacy--seems like a good way to win more enemies than friends.) I hear that unions are often corrupt, guys. I hear they can, at least in the US, cause more harm than good. But that's not terror, and again, unless threats of violence or actual violece was used, it's dangerous and disingenous to attempt to conflate the two. McVeigh was terrorism. Not some *UNARMED* loudmouths.

And that's all I have to say about that.

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Old 02-15-2004, 09:56 AM   #22
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When I handled labour legislation, the meetings with union reps were the WORST. They were so rude and aggressive. There would be about twenty of them crammed into the Congressman's office yelling and being very offensive (and my boss and my coworker who had been handling the issue for years were both very mild, polite, non-confrontational people). I agree with unions in principle, but in practice, they leave a lot to be desired.
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Old 02-16-2004, 02:23 PM   #23
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Unions are CULTS.

Seriously.....Like it was said above, they are corporations out to make money, and many of the average union flunkies do not realize it. I have seen unions (in my industry) do more harm RECENTLY than good. Now, I know this hasn't always been the case, and do believe that Unions did serve a good purpose at one time.

Let's look at my industry: "Airlines"

Pilots are all represented by the same union..ALPA. Now, I work for a regional airline that is held to certain standards of flying set by the larger carrier's pilot union. The ALPA people will negotiate witht he major airline for "scope" clauses that will say that the regional airlines can ONLY fly planes with less than XX number of seats, screwing their "brothers" (the regional pilots) out of opportunities. And the regional pilots still stand by the union...chest thumping, etc. Yes, the Unions have developed litle ignorant cult members.

No, I dealt with some of the bag throwers at the major airline...because I wasn't union...I was not allowed to touch the bags on the belt loader until THEY put them on the ground. Even if I knew I had just a few minutes to get that (our/THEIR) passenger's bag to their connecting flight. They did not give a crap. They would stop the belt, and file a report rather than have a passenger's bag get to its final location. So, much like the grocery baggers and stockers taunting CUSTOMERS...these idiots would rather screw their own passengers for union rules. Unions are ANTI-CUSTOMER serivce. I hate unions.

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