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Old 07-04-2004, 07:25 PM   #31
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Exodus 20:4-6 (KJV) Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: {5} Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; {6} And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Exodus 34:14 (KJV) For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.

Deuteronomy 6:15 (KJV) (For the LORD thy God is a jealous God among you) lest the anger of the LORD thy God be kindled against thee, and destroy thee from off the face of the earth.

It's in there.
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Old 07-04-2004, 07:41 PM   #32
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Exodus 20:4-6 (KJV) Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: {5} Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; {6} And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Exodus 34:14 (KJV) For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.

Deuteronomy 6:15 (KJV) (For the LORD thy God is a jealous God among you) lest the anger of the LORD thy God be kindled against thee, and destroy thee from off the face of the earth.

It's in there.
My bad. I've never heard that before...interesting.
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Old 07-04-2004, 08:05 PM   #33
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Of course, by the Mosaic Law's standards, all non-Jews would make God angry.

Figures that people would use the most hateful books of the Bible to try and figure out what God is.

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Old 07-04-2004, 08:24 PM   #34
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Well, there are different causes of depression and one's chemical balance doesn't necessarily mean that they are depressed. It's just that only those whose chemical balance lends itself to depression does something about it. It wasn't meant to be a generalization about all depressed people or all instances of depression; just one very specific example and subsequent hypothesis.
Ah, I see.

Its an interesting theory, BTW
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Old 07-04-2004, 10:16 PM   #35
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Ah, I see.

Its an interesting theory, BTW
Yeah, it is. I've never heard about that before.

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Old 07-05-2004, 04:57 PM   #36
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i dont mean to start any controversy or whatever...But I just wanted to state my opinion on this thing about maybe people all around the world are worshipping the same God. I know, now, there is doubt in people's mind about the Bible, but it does say not to worship other Gods, so how can that mean that Budda or the others are the same God..b/c God knew we would turn to believes in other gods? There have infact been studies done over this theory..I wish i could cite it..anyway, it was resulted that the other gods are not the smae based off research of the other gods as well. I've wondered about the Bible and its validity. Maybe from a Christian perspective..all of the changes and etc. in the word/Bible was done by human but with God's spirit in them..so it was done through God.

That doesnt make a lot of sense so im sorry.
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Old 07-05-2004, 05:13 PM   #37
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i dont mean to start any controversy or whatever...But I just wanted to state my opinion on this thing about maybe people all around the world are worshipping the same God. I know, now, there is doubt in people's mind about the Bible, but it does say not to worship other Gods, so how can that mean that Budda or the others are the same God..b/c God knew we would turn to believes in other gods? There have infact been studies done over this theory..I wish i could cite it..anyway, it was resulted that the other gods are not the smae based off research of the other gods as well. I've wondered about the Bible and its validity. Maybe from a Christian perspective..all of the changes and etc. in the word/Bible was done by human but with God's spirit in them..so it was done through God.

That doesnt make a lot of sense so im sorry.
Of course the whole "No other Gods but me" thing could be added to make people stay within the faith. Otherwise people could float from religion to religion. A statement like that is threatening and scares people into staying where they are.

PS: I think that's a human addition.
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Old 07-06-2004, 12:49 AM   #38
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I think that part of what's going on with Bible is that God may have designed it to sound somewhat strange, illogical, or even foolish to human understanding on purpose:

''Since God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never find him through human wisdom, He was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. " -- I Corinthians 1:21



When a person has accepted Jesus as their savior and therefore has received God's Spirit into their heart, it continues to help them understand God's wisdom in a way that others cannot:

"The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned." -- I Corinthians 2:14



I think that the point of all of this is that God set up the Bible to work in such a way that only those who are willing to humble themselves and rely on his wisdom rather than their own or the world's will be able to understand the truth:

"For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength." -- I Corinthians 1:25
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Old 07-06-2004, 01:14 AM   #39
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So then why would God in "his" infinite wisdom "create" only one religion in order to get to "him" but then have it where it never even reaches some parts of the world. So God would allow his own children to be punished due to where they live?

I believe God presents itself to every person, every inch of the universe at some point in their life and that person chooses to accept that or not.

It just so happens that Christianity works for me, but by no means do I think God to be so neglectful of his children that the person who grew up on some island and never heard of Jesus will live in hell, or some person who grew up in another religion and followed what in essence are the same morals and laws set forth will burn because they called him by some other name. Now I'm not saying that I believe every religion to be valid and true. But every person has access to God it's up to them if they choose to take that step.

But for someone to say their way is the only way then you rule out even the possibility of millions who never had the oppurtunity to even hear about your way. In eccense you're saying your god has a poor PR staff and doesn't care about those millions. That doesn't sound like a very powerful or loving god to me.
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Old 07-06-2004, 02:00 AM   #40
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I think we all know the answer to your question, BVS. If America were a Muslim country, we'd be telling everyone who wasn't Muslim that they'd be going to hell, and we'd be using the Koran as evidence. If we were a Hindu, we'd berate non-Hindus. It's an obvious pattern. The "chosen religion" is oh-so-coincidentally the one we believe in, and that goes for every culture around the world.

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Old 07-06-2004, 02:20 AM   #41
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Quite true, melon.

Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
So then why would God in "his" infinite wisdom "create" only one religion in order to get to "him" but then have it where it never even reaches some parts of the world. So God would allow his own children to be punished due to where they live?

I believe God presents itself to every person, every inch of the universe at some point in their life and that person chooses to accept that or not.

It just so happens that Christianity works for me, but by no means do I think God to be so neglectful of his children that the person who grew up on some island and never heard of Jesus will live in hell, or some person who grew up in another religion and followed what in essence are the same morals and laws set forth will burn because they called him by some other name. Now I'm not saying that I believe every religion to be valid and true. But every person has access to God it's up to them if they choose to take that step.

But for someone to say their way is the only way then you rule out even the possibility of millions who never had the oppurtunity to even hear about your way. In eccense you're saying your god has a poor PR staff and doesn't care about those millions. That doesn't sound like a very powerful or loving god to me.
.

"I think God's a great person. He just has really bad PR people". Still love that quote.

Also, DaveC...that's an interesting theory regarding that whole thing. I think you may be right about that.

Angela
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Old 07-06-2004, 08:21 PM   #42
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I can't speak for all Christians, but I've never said that anyone who hasn't had an opportunity to hear about Jesus throughout their lifetime will be doomed to go to Hell. Obviously, that wouldn't be fair.

Perhaps between their death and judgement day, God gives someone like that the opportunity to accept or reject Jesus and therefore him before it's all said and done. Who knows?

But Jesus did tell us to "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation" (Mark 16:15). In other words, the message will get out only to the extent that we are faithful in getting it out there, but I don't believe for a second that God will send someone to Hell just because someone neglected to tell them.

Another part of the message which our human understanding seems to have trouble accepting is when Jesus said, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father (God) except through me" (John 14:6).

As much as this might seem unreasonable to our understanding, if it is actually the way that God set things up to work, then it will remain to be the truth regardless of whether or not it happens to make sense to us personally.

I'm not telling anyone to take my word for it, but I would suggest that it might be a good idea to examine these statements and pray for guidance about them before totally dismissing them out of hand. We wouldn't want to miss something that God wants us to know just because it didn't immediately make obvious sense to us.
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Old 07-06-2004, 08:42 PM   #43
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But Jesus did tell us to "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation" (Mark 16:15). In other words, the message will get out only to the extent that we are faithful in getting it out there, but I don't believe for a second that God will send
someone to Hell just because someone neglected to tell them.

Another part of the message which our human understanding seems to have trouble accepting is when Jesus said, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father (God) except through me" (John 14:6).

As much as this might seem unreasonable to our understanding, if it is actually the way that God set things up to work, then it will remain to be the truth regardless of whether or not it happens to make sense to us personally.

I'm not telling anyone to take my word for it, but I would suggest that it might be a good idea to examine these statements and pray for guidance about them before totally dismissing them out of hand. We wouldn't want to miss something that God wants us to know just because it didn't immediately make obvious sense to us.
Jesus said much more in John's scripture:

In John 14:11-13, Jesus says:
Have faith in me when I say that the father is one with me and that I am one with the Father. Or else have faith in me simply because of the things I do. I tell you for certain that if you have faith in me, you will do the same things that I am doing. You will do even greater things, now that I am going back to the Father.


I think it is much more than "spreading God's word". It is living our lives with Jesus as our role model. He took care of the poor and needy, he was loving and tolerant. He was everything we should try to be.
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Old 07-06-2004, 09:16 PM   #44
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Perhaps between their death and judgement day, God gives someone like that the opportunity to accept or reject Jesus and therefore him before it's all said and done. Who knows?

So does this stretch out to everyone?

Quote:
Originally posted by TheFirstBigW


Another part of the message which our human understanding seems to have trouble accepting is when Jesus said, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father (God) except through me" (John 14:6).

So what exactly does, "except through me" mean? Does that mean his action opened the door for everyone after that? Or is he a bouncer at a door? He never says you have to know me or be my friend...
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Old 07-07-2004, 01:32 AM   #45
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BostonAnne:

I agree with you.

As a matter of fact, we probably have to serve people in need before we can tell them about Jesus because it's pretty hard to listen when you're starving, hurting, etc...

The only thing I'm not certain about is your use of the word "tolerant".
If you mean tolerant as in willing to respect all people, then I totally agree.
However, if you mean tolerant as in not making value judgements about people's behavior, then I have to disagree.

You've probably heard the story where a mob was about to stone a woman to death for committing adultery ("Do not commit adultery" is one of the Ten Commandments) until Jesus stopped them by saying that the person without sin should throw the first stone. When everyone had dropped their rocks and left:
"Jesus straightened up and asked her, 'Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?'
'No one, sir,' she said.
'Then neither do I condemn you,' Jesus declared. 'Go now and leave your life of sin.'" (John 8:10-11)

Jesus showed love towards her by stepping in and saving her life, he was respectful towards her despite the fact that she was being shunned by society, and he told her that he wasn't condemning her.
However, at the same time he said to her, "leave your life of sin".
Now how can this be? Doesn't the modern day concept of tolerance tell us that loving someone is incompatible with making value judgements about their behavior?
Isn't that being intolerant, judgemental, etc...?
Or is it because he loves her that he cares about not only the state of her physical health but also her spiritual health?
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