Universality of God... - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-03-2004, 11:35 PM   #16
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,697
Local Time: 05:22 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by FullonEdge
The Bible says God is a "jealous God" who punishes sin and is in fact the only deity.

What Bible are you reading?
__________________

__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 07-03-2004, 11:40 PM   #17
The Fly
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 108
Local Time: 11:22 AM
NIV

If you think i've made a mistake, please tell me, but I think its in exodus or something
__________________

__________________
FullonEdge is offline  
Old 07-04-2004, 03:36 AM   #18
Jesus Online
 
Angela Harlem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: a glass castle
Posts: 30,163
Local Time: 10:22 PM
Why would someone willingly subscribe to that? I know you have rewritten it into your own words, but if the essence is the same, then chalk that up to another aspect I find highly offensive about religion.
__________________
<a href=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/angelaharlem/thPaul_Roos28.jpg target=_blank>http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...aul_Roos28.jpg</a>
Angela Harlem is offline  
Old 07-04-2004, 04:03 AM   #19
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,697
Local Time: 05:22 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by FullonEdge
NIV

If you think i've made a mistake, please tell me, but I think its in exodus or something
Yes please tell me where God is jealous...
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 07-04-2004, 04:42 AM   #20
Blue Crack Addict
 
Moonlit_Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...
Posts: 19,272
Local Time: 05:22 AM
Before I go on, FullonEdge, this isn't me flaming anything you've said, just so you know. .

Quote:
Originally posted by FullonEdge
I think that the emerging idea of universalism where all religions worship the same God and merely take different paths to either "oneness" or heaven is a dangerous one.
I don't understand how that can be a dangerous belief. I don't understand this whole idea of God only favoring one group of people. Why can't we all share God? Why does he have to belong to one group of people? Last I heard, he loved all his children, not just a select portion. It's the whole "God is on our side and not yours" belief that's caused a lot of the fighting between religious people in this world, and I don't mean that to be offensive, either.

Quote:
Originally posted by FullonEdge
It's more like wishful thinking. The Bible says God is a "jealous God" who punishes sin and is in fact the only deity.
Well, I personally don't agree with the Bible on a lot of things, and that's one of them. I personally fail to understand why someone would want to worship a god who would like only a small group of people.

It's not wishful thinking, either. I seriously believe that God loves us all, no exceptions, and lets us use our free will to choose any path we deem right for us to get to him.

I mean, don't get me wrong, believe whatever you want regarding God. I just personally feel otherwise.

Quote:
Originally posted by FullonEdge
As for atheism, I think everyone is aware that a deity exists,
No, not everyone.

Quote:
Originally posted by FullonEdge
some may deny the existence out of stubborness (seeing how religions can be corrupted and how evil human nature is) or out of ignorance (thinking they don't need a god)
Actually, a lot of the atheists I know say they don't believe in God simply because they just haven't seen sufficient enough proof that he exists. Besides that, every single religion out there claims that they have the proof. And Christianity's got a bunch of denominations, meaning that even people within the same religion have disagreements regarding God and everything. So is it any wonder why some people are wary to be religious?

A few people may not believe in a god because of the reasons you've stated, sure. But those are not what the atheists I've talked to state as their reason for not believing in a god.

Quote:
Originally posted by FullonEdge
even though God promises hell to be real.
Supposedly. Hell is supposedly real. A book claims that it exists. That doesn't automatically mean that that's true, though.

Besides that, I dunno, if people are going to be Christians, I would think they should become Christians because they truly feel that's the right religion for them, they truly get something out of it, and not just because they want to avoid a potential eternity of hellfire. That's what it seems some Christians out there are like to me-they only do things because they don't want to go to a place that may or may not exist, and not for any other reason. Not saying that you're like that or anything, but that's what it's seemed like with some other Christians I've met.

Quote:
Originally posted by FullonEdge
Why would you want to risk unimagineable torture for eternity?
Well, hey, let's turn this the other way-why would you want to risk whatever punishment another religion has for eternity. Perhaps you should start believing in the god of another religion, just in case that's the one we all should've been following this entire time, right?

You have your reasons for why you don't follow any other religion, and those reasons are also the ones of people who choose to not follow Christianity as well.

Quote:
Originally posted by FullonEdge
Yes, I do think rationalism has gone a little too far.
I beg to differ. I think it's very important to question religious dogma of any kind.

Angela
__________________
Moonlit_Angel is offline  
Old 07-04-2004, 05:17 AM   #21
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 06:22 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by FullonEdge I think that the emerging idea of universalism where all religions worship the same God and merely take different paths to either "oneness" or heaven is a dangerous one. It's more like wishful thinking. The Bible says God is a "jealous God" who punishes sin and is in fact the only deity.
I am not going to personally attack you. The fact of the matter, most likely, is that one cannot justify "universalism" using the Bible. The Bible is, for all intensive purposes, a very "jealous" book, written by a highly xenophobic culture. But not everyone bases their faith experience from the Bible.

Quote:
As for atheism, I think everyone is aware that a deity exists, some may deny the existence out of stubborness (seeing how religions can be corrupted and how evil human nature is) or out of ignorance (thinking they don't need a god) even though God promises hell to be real. Why would you want to risk unimagineable torture for eternity? Yes, I do think rationalism has gone a little too far.
I am not an atheist, but I do base my Christian beliefs on rational footing. This runs inherent to my upbringing and religious education, so it was not as if my "rationale" was due to being rebellious. But what I do know, and is scientifically observed, is that one's religiosity is often determined by the level of the neurotransmitter, dopamine, in the brain. Higher levels tend to equate to higher levels of religiosity, and, subsequently, low levels of dopamine (often linked to high levels of serotonin) make people feel far less spiritual. In fact, that's one of complaints that people on SSRIs (Prozac, Paxil, etc.) make: they feel as if they lose their faith. But simultaneously, extremely high levels of dopamine creates schizophrenia, and it is theorized that many of the highly religious "visionaries" in history are likely that: schizophrenic.

But I digress...my point is not to say that the religious are schizophrenic (and most clearly aren't), but that I am not about to judge an atheist, because there are many matters that come into play, whether it be natural brain chemistry or disillusionment with organized religion. Frankly, such bombastic judgmentalism is precisely what drove many people away from religion in the first place! If anything, I avoid the "hellfire and brimstone" preaching and live by example. And, sure, religion certainly does come up in conversations, and when they do, I discuss my POV in a non-judgmental manner. Being "nice" does get you farther than you think; after all, that was part of Jesus' success.

Take care...

Melon
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 07-04-2004, 05:22 AM   #22
Blue Crack Addict
 
Moonlit_Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...
Posts: 19,272
Local Time: 05:22 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by melon
Frankly, such bombastic judgmentalism is precisely what drove many people away from religion in the first place! If anything, I avoid the "hellfire and brimstone" preaching and live by example. And, sure, religion certainly does come up in conversations, and when they do, I discuss my POV in a non-judgmental manner. Being "nice" does get you farther than you think; after all, that was part of Jesus' success.
.

Angela
__________________
Moonlit_Angel is offline  
Old 07-04-2004, 10:57 AM   #23
The Fly
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 108
Local Time: 11:22 AM
Whoa! I never expected such an emotional response!

No, really, I am sorry if I got carried away and if I seem like a fire and brimstone enthusiast, which I'm not. I personally take comfort in Jesus' saving grace. Ok, I hope I just didn't open a whole other can of worms with that one!

If I'm not mistaken, dopamine is the neurotransmitter that causes a feeling of happiness, so isn't it possible that some religious people are just very happy? The part about schizophrenia is interesting.

When I have some time I'll try to find that part about a "jealous God."

Um, need I say that I disagree with a bunch of the points made so far? Nevertheless, I really do appreciate your comments because they are interesting. Maybe I'll go further into detail later.
__________________
FullonEdge is offline  
Old 07-04-2004, 01:31 PM   #24
Jesus Online
 
Angela Harlem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: a glass castle
Posts: 30,163
Local Time: 10:22 PM
So if you dont follow Christianity you're going to hell, and if you do, you're schizophrenic.

Choices, choices....

__________________
<a href=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/angelaharlem/thPaul_Roos28.jpg target=_blank>http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...aul_Roos28.jpg</a>
Angela Harlem is offline  
Old 07-04-2004, 01:33 PM   #25
you are what you is
 
Salome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 22,016
Local Time: 12:22 PM
to quote the mighty AC/DC: "Hell Ain't A Bad Place To Be"
__________________
“Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe.”
~Frank Zappa
Salome is offline  
Old 07-04-2004, 01:52 PM   #26
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,697
Local Time: 05:22 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
So if you dont follow Christianity you're going to hell, and if you do, you're schizophrenic.

Choices, choices....

__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 07-04-2004, 01:56 PM   #27
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 06:22 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by FullonEdge
If I'm not mistaken, dopamine is the neurotransmitter that causes a feeling of happiness, so isn't it possible that some religious people are just very happy? The part about schizophrenia is interesting.
It does several things, but, mostly, it is one's emotional center--not to mention that dopamine is necessary for sexual function (hence, why SSRI users complain of sexual dysfunction).

And you're correct. Most religious folk are not schizophrenic, and I didn't wish to imply that. There are some out there, though, and they tend to manifest themselves as "mystics" or "seers," or, in the case of Anne Catherine Emmerich, write a blood-filled, anti-Semitic tale of Jesus' death, and get a movie ("The Passion of Christ") made out of it 200 years later. I guess I wanted to point that out as an extreme to point out how important dopamine is to faith, interestingly enough, and point out a theory as to why *some* may be atheist. I know of at least one person who doesn't believe in God solely because he doesn't feel Hs existence and hence why my hypothesis may hold some water.

Melon
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 07-04-2004, 03:05 PM   #28
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Pearl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,653
Local Time: 07:22 AM
Do you mean faith all depends on how happy you are, and how chemically balanced you are? What about people who suffer from depression but still feel God's existence? I've known people who were depressed and they turned to God, and their lives and emotions improved.
__________________
Pearl is offline  
Old 07-04-2004, 03:23 PM   #29
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 06:22 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Pearl
Do you mean faith all depends on how happy you are, and how chemically balanced you are? What about people who suffer from depression but still feel God's existence? I've known people who were depressed and they turned to God, and their lives and emotions improved.
Well, there are different causes of depression and one's chemical balance doesn't necessarily mean that they are depressed. It's just that only those whose chemical balance lends itself to depression does something about it. It wasn't meant to be a generalization about all depressed people or all instances of depression; just one very specific example and subsequent hypothesis.

Melon
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 07-04-2004, 05:12 PM   #30
Blue Crack Addict
 
Moonlit_Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...
Posts: 19,272
Local Time: 05:22 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by FullonEdge
Um, need I say that I disagree with a bunch of the points made so far?
LOL, I had a feeling you would. But it's cool. .

Quote:
Originally posted by FullonEdge
Nevertheless, I really do appreciate your comments because they are interesting. Maybe I'll go further into detail later.
Good. I look forward to hearing your thoughts on my thoughts. .

Angela
__________________

__________________
Moonlit_Angel is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com