AEON
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
Because the majority of your brothers and sisters (you know, your fellow citizens) don't want it in its current form.
United States of Entropy
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cobl04
45:33
I can't believe you're all still arguing about Universal Health Care.
Yeah, the 1970s called, they want their controversy back.
AEON
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
The funny thing is - I support Universal Health Care. I consider it a basic, human right. This Affordable Care Act is an overly complicated boondoggle with special interest groups flying around it like flies on shite.
Our politicians are thieves - yet both "sides" have their volunteer soldiers that steadily march to bumper sticker slogans and snarky tweets. Those in power don't have to worry much, they have the blind pawns to do all the work for them.
Why anyone would register for either one of these parties is beyond me.
cobl04
45:33
So why don't more people start voting Greens, Libertarian, etc. I understand they don't have a realistic chance but it gives more people a voice and might shake up the two major parties.
LemonMelon
More 5G Than Man
Both parties are a farce and the interaction between them is somehow 10 times worse. You'd think people would have figured out by now that both options are a dead end and choose another one, but we're in a bad cycle of defensive voting to cancel out the greater of two evils, so we can't actually choose a good option.
cobl04
45:33
It's largely the same here, though thankfully the Greens have a voice and also a Senate seat.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
Give it a chance.
If it's so awful when poor people suddenly have health insurance, then the American people will have ample opportunity to elect Republicans who can change or repeal the law.
You know, like how adults would.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
INDY500
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
It would be fun to revisit the Wisconsin union ruckus from a couple of years ago to see if you felt the same way when Democratic state representatives fled and hide in Illinois to prevent the elected Republican legislature and elected Republican governor Scott Walker from passing right to work laws.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
This is a breakdown of democracy, plain and simple. Of course all sides have played politics and used the process to their advantage, but have we ever had a minority hold the government hostage to change a law that is already on the books? Debt ceiling talks have always been about budgets, never about changing history.
This is a dangerous precedent these Tea Party children are playing. A minority representation has continued to lose their way so they're throwing a tantrum. Those that are defending this game, what will you do in the future when an extreme left sanction of the party holds the government hostage in order to defund a war that a Republican president started? Will you defend it and dismiss it as "it's in their rights"?
This is a dangerous precedent these Tea Party children are playing. A minority representation has continued to lose their way so they're throwing a tantrum. Those that are defending this game, what will you do in the future when an extreme left sanction of the party holds the government hostage in order to defund a war that a Republican president started? Will you defend it and dismiss it as "it's in their rights"?
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
It's funny how these are always the same people who are decrying when a minority group tries to fight for their rights. Hypocritical entitled children.
So, when in August of 2004, 67% of Americans believed that the Iraq war was a mistake, and yet Bush was re-elected shortly there after, did the Democrats attempt to defund the war in a budgetary resolution? In fact, Steny Hoyer openly mocked any such proposals by "rogue" Democrats like Kucinich and guess what, they went nowhere.
Because the Democrats simply DO NOT HAVE the equivalent of a Tea Party caucus on the left. Why is that so hard to accept for you, AEON? I've asked you over and over again to point out a group of individuals on their side who have as much say in governance from a minority position as the Tea Party has and you have just glossed over it.
The mere existence of these Tea Party Republicans is what is causing this issue. This much has been stated over and over again by rank and file Republicans and yet you refuse to accept it.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
I'm sure you were outraged at those terrorists subverting the will of the people of Wisconsin
Unfortunately, many Americans are either too lazy or too careless to start looking into other political parties. Some may rightfully believe voting for a third party would be a waste, but others have no clue about the other parties out there. They either don't care, don't want to care, or are too afraid to care. I'm seeing a lot of people like this and it scares and upsets me.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
I do agree that one of the overlooked things is how much blame for this lies at the feet if the American people, especially those in the "suicide caucus" districts. Certainly their influence has been assisted by gerrymandering, whipped into states of fear and loathing by Fox News, and given easy targets for whatever rage they feel (and reading conservative websites, rage seems to be the overriding emotion). Fortunately, this is a minority (30 house seats?) within an out-of-power party. It's not most Americans. It's not even most Republicans.
In a representative democracy, we get the government we deserve. We the people are partly to blame.
^
Of the 56% or whatever number AEON keeps citing - how many of them truly believe that the ACA imposes death panels, mandatory suicide counselling for grandmas, Obama will make them get rid of their own doctor and replace him/her with another one, etc?
Sheer ignorance is a great contributor to that number.
Of the 56% or whatever number AEON keeps citing - how many of them truly believe that the ACA imposes death panels, mandatory suicide counselling for grandmas, Obama will make them get rid of their own doctor and replace him/her with another one, etc?
Sheer ignorance is a great contributor to that number.
There are plenty like that, but the ones I'm talking about who really don't care or are lazy. Tell them there's a government shutdown and its hurting the country, and they'll say, "Oh really? Oh OK" and then change the subject, like the issue is akin to one of the sinks in the office bathroom that isn't working well. I think some people are scared to think or give a damn. I don't know why, but they are.
As a side note, I think you'll see the GOP fold like a stack of cards on the debt ceiling.
My husband is an American economist at a global bank and he was just telling me yesterday that the amount of disgust on Wall Street at the Tea Party and the GOP is reaching levels he's never seen before. Not a chance that these corporate overlords will permit the Tea Party to sink the markets. You can count on it.
My husband is an American economist at a global bank and he was just telling me yesterday that the amount of disgust on Wall Street at the Tea Party and the GOP is reaching levels he's never seen before. Not a chance that these corporate overlords will permit the Tea Party to sink the markets. You can count on it.
AEON
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
Okay, so the Democrats don't have a Tea Party. Now what? The Tea Party came into existence (or so they claim) as a response to out of control government spending. Also, they initially (or so they claim) leaned toward a more libertarian-style of government - meaning less of it. This filled a void in the Republican Party (a void created by the over-spending Republicans of the 00's). They were elected on these principles.
Look, I'm not necessarily an advocate of the Tea Party (or any political caucus/party), but they are doing exactly what they were elected to do - control government spending. I don't see what's so shocking.
AEON
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
It's my hope that Social Media will help us elect people without large spending budgets and that have no party affiliation at all.
AEON
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
That number was from a recent CNN poll. I provided a link. Most other polls have had similar results since 2010.
I'm not arguing the people are correct in their thinking, I was merely responding to the implication that the vast majority of the people wanted ACA - and the Tea Party wasn't allowing them to have it.
AEON
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
What are they going to do - shoot 'em?
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
This isn't about shock. It's about the damage they are doing to this country to prove this political point, it's about the hypocrisy of their platform.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
also, of that 56%, how many wish it was a true single-payer system?
i think the ACA is a workable compromise that will take years to get right, but they got it right in Massachusetts.
i myself would prefer a single payer system. but i also realize that might not be feasible in the US at present. so i'd rather get people covered by hook or by crook, to bring down costs and reduce the insanity of people being denied coverage for preexisting conditions, getting kicked off insurance for getting cancer or HIV, and overrun ERs filled with uninsured people who have the flu.
an ounce of prevention ...
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
this has been the fundamental tension in the GOP since the 1980s, when big business joined forces with the "moral majority" in order to win elections. it's essentially religious figures telling their congregations that God wants them to vote for people who will make other people richer, and abortion and gays and guns.
Reagan could handle both ends of that coalition. Bush 1 not so much. Bush 2 actually did a great job in the beginning, with his unfunded tax cuts and true blue Christian persona and crusades against unholy Muslims.
it's two very, very culturally different groups of people, not easy to mix. can you see Sheldon Adelson at a church picnic? the Koch Brothers doing Christian charity work in Africa?
we're finally seeing those chickens come home to roost.
Palin was the warning shot, Cruz is the real deal.
AEON
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
I agree. And this is one of the problems with "democracy." The politicians that are refusing to pass the budget with ACA in it are solidifying their own re-election back home. They are opportunists, nothing more. That is the nature of the politician - they do whatever it takes to get elected/re-elected.
If tomorrow, 90 percent of their district really wanted ACA - they would flip-flop (see my Austin Powers post).
And I do not believe for a second that the Democrats would behave any different if roles were reversed. Especially with the current media circus environment. These people are politicians first, a member of a political party second.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
you're free to believe that, in the way that people are free not to believe in climate change.
but there's no evidence that supports what you believe.
AEON
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
The Democrats have led shutdowns in the past. While they are not exactly the same - this is an important fact when claiming one of the party's "would never do X."
I suppose the only real way to prove this is to have the Republicans take back the Presidency and pass laws without a single Democrat vote. Are you willing to give that experiment a chance?
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