United States of Entropy

[Irvine511]

Taking another step back, the blue states have vastly superior "values" than the Red States.

 

[INDY500]

Don't worry, my partner and I have done extremely well. I'd be willing to wager good money that we've done exponentially better than you under the current "meritocracy" system. If I were to adopt your attitude, I'd have to conclude that you're lazier than us and/or have made worse life choices. Because it's really that simple in life?

Is it not possible for you to argue public policies, political philosophies or value systems strictly on their merits rather than making everything, EVERYTHING, personal?

Good grief.

 

[INDY500]

Taking another step back, the blue states have vastly superior "values" than the Red States.

Americans Are Migrating To More Free Republican States
Wed, Mar 27 2013 00:00:00 E 00_WEB
By JOHN MERLINE, INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY


Americans are migrating from less-free liberal states to more-free conservative states, where they are doing better economically, according to a new study published Thursday by George Mason University's Mercatus Center.

The "Freedom in the 50 States" study measured economic and personal freedom using a wide range of criteria, including tax rates, government spending and debt, regulatory burdens, and state laws covering land use, union organizing, gun control, education choice and more.

It found that the freest states tended to be conservative "red" states, while the least free were liberal "blue" states.


The freest state overall, the researchers concluded, was North Dakota, followed by South Dakota, Tennessee, New Hampshire and Oklahoma. The least free state by far was New York, followed by California, New Jersey, Hawaii and Rhode Island.

Freedom in the 50 States 2013 | Overall Freedom | Mercatus Center






Americans Migrating To More Free GOP States With Better Income Growth - Investors.com

 

[Jive Turkey]

Did Indy just post a quantitative diagram on 'freedom'?

hahahahaha

Sorry, Vermont. You're down 3 freedoms from 4 years ago.

 

[anitram]

Is it not possible for you to argue public policies, political philosophies or value systems strictly on their merits rather than making everything, EVERYTHING, personal?

Some cognitive dissonance you have going on there.

YOU are the one who insists on making these matters personal because rather than arguing on economic, political, social merits, YOU constantly bring up values, individual choices (typically poor unless they agree with your values) and gay/unideal marriage. Every single time.

 

[Irvine511]

Freedom in the 50 States 2013 | Overall Freedom | Mercatus Center

Americans Migrating To More Free GOP States With Better Income Growth - Investors.com

Oh come on.

 

[Diemen]

The irony is that the very people that, by indy's account, lack the proper values to get off the government teat, are most populous in these states that have higher degrees of this so-called "freedom."

 

[Irvine511]

When I lived in Belgium, I once got very sick. I went to the doctor and waited for maybe 5 minutes. I say with him as he did a thorough examination in slow, but careful Wnglish. He then diagnosed what was wrong (strep throat) and wrote me a prescription that I took to the pharmacy one block away. I waited for 10 minutes. Paid $20. Got a receipt that I was instructed to mail in and 2 weeks later I was fully reimbursed.

Felt pretty free to me.

 

[Jive Turkey]

I hope you're enjoying your grapes, Indy

Equal Pay for Monkeys - YouTube

(I'm actually not posting this as any sort of commentary. Just thought it was funny and kinda fit in here in a weird way....Maybe if we had a Morality thread, then I'd be illustrating a point )

 

[INDY500]

33 Shocking Facts Which Show How Badly The Economy Has Tanked Under Obama | Zero Hedge

#1 When Barack Obama entered the White House, 60.6 percent of working age Americans had a job. Today, only 58.7 percent of working age Americans have a job.

#2 Since Obama has been president, seven out of every eight jobs that have been "created" in the U.S. economy have been part-time jobs.

#3 The number of full-time workers in the United States is still nearly 6 million below the old record that was set back in 2007.

#4 It is hard to believe, but an astounding 53 percent of all American workers now make less than $30,000 a year.

#5 40 percent of all workers in the United States actually make less than what a full-time minimum wage worker made back in 1968.

#6 When the Obama era began, the average duration of unemployment in this country was 19.8 weeks. Today, it is 36.6 weeks.

#7 During the first four years of Obama, the number of Americans "not in the labor force" soared by an astounding 8,332,000. That far exceeds any previous four year total.

#8 According to the U.S. Census Bureau, the middle class is taking home a smaller share of the overall income pie than has ever been recorded before.

#9 When Obama was elected, the homeownership rate in the United States was 67.5 percent. Today, it is 65.0 percent. That is the lowest that it has been in 18 years.

#10 When Obama entered the White House, the mortgage delinquency rate was 7.85 percent. Today, it is 9.72 percent.

#11 In 2008, the U.S. trade deficit with China was 268 billion dollars. Last year, it was 315 billion dollars.

#12 When Obama first became president, 12.5 million Americans had manufacturing jobs. Today, only 11.9 million Americans have manufacturing jobs.

#13 Median household income in America has fallen for four consecutive years. Overall, it has declined by over $4000 during that time span.

#14 The poverty rate has shot up to 16.1 percent. That is actually higher than when the War on Poverty began in 1965.

#15 During Obama's first term, the number of Americans on food stamps increased by an average of about 11,000 per day.

#16 When Barack Obama entered the White House, there were about 32 million Americans on food stamps. Today, there are more than 47 million Americans on food stamps.

#17 At this point, more than a million public school students in the United States are homeless. This is the first time that has ever happened in our history. That number has risen by 57 percent since the 2006-2007 school year.

#18 When Barack Obama took office, the average price of a gallon of regular gasoline was $1.85. Today, it is $3.53.

#19 Electricity bills in the United States have risen faster than the overall rate of inflation for five years in a row.
#20 Health insurance costs have risen by 29 percent since Barack Obama became president, and Obamacare is going to make things far worse.

#21 The United States has fallen in the global economic competitiveness rankings compiled by the World Economic Forum for four years in a row.

#22 According to economist Tim Kane, the following is how the number of startup jobs per 1000 Americans breaks down by presidential administration...

Bush Sr.: 11.3

Clinton: 11.2

Bush Jr.: 10.8

Obama: 7.8

#23 In 2008, that total amount of student loan debt in this country was 440 billion dollars. At this point, it has shot up to about a trillion dollars.

#24 According to one recent survey, 76 percent of all Americans are living paycheck to paycheck.

#25 During Obama's first term, the number of Americans collecting federal disability insurance rose by more than 18 percent.

#26 The total amount of money that the federal government gives directly to the American people has grown by 32 percent since Barack Obama became president.

#27 According to the Survey of Income and Program Participation conducted by the U.S. Census, well over 100 million Americans are enrolled in at least one welfare program run by the federal government.

#28 As I wrote about the other day, American households are now receiving more money directly from the federal government than they are paying to the government in taxes.

#29 Under Barack Obama, the velocity of money (a very important indicator of economic health) has plunged to a post-World War II low.

#30 At the end of 2008, the Federal Reserve held $475.9 billion worth of U.S. Treasury bonds. Today, Fed holdings of U.S. Treasury bonds have skyrocketed past the 2 trillion dollar mark.

#31 When Barack Obama was first elected, the U.S. debt to GDP ratio was under 70 percent. Today, it is up to 101 percent.

#32 During Obama's first term, the federal government accumulated more new debt than it did under the first 42 U.S presidents combined.

#33 When you break it down, the amount of new debt accumulated by the U.S. government during Obama's first term comes to approximately $50,521 for every single household in the United States.

A sad record of economic malaise, growing entitlement, debt and people are suffering for it.

 

[digitize]

Number 29 is the scary one there.

 

[INDY500]

Along with # 30

 

[digitize]

I don't know if 30 scares me or not. I am skeptical that quantitative easing has had much of an effect in any sense, but mildly concerned that it could be a cause for future inflation. Regardless, the real part of the economy is lethargic right now in a way that concerns me far more than the nominal part (i.e. inflation).

 

[AEON]

How "real" is any of this crap? It "seems" these people can "print" or "not print" and there's no visible difference. It seems economics is nothing more than an agreed upon illusion.

 

[Irvine511]

33 Shocking Facts Which Show How Badly The Economy Has Tanked Under Obama | Zero Hedge A sad record of economic malaise, growing entitlement, debt and people are suffering for it.

Still blaming Obama for the Great Recession? I lost track of how many times it said "during Obama's first term ..."

SHOCKING FACTS! SO SO SHOCKING!

 

[Jive Turkey]

Still blaming Obama for the Great Recession? I lost track of how many times it said "during Obama's first term ..."

SHOCKING FACTS! SO SO SHOCKING!

Read the 'facts' he has carefully bolded for us... yet he defends walmart in another thread. does not compute

 

[Pearl]

Regarding the widening gap between the rich and poor, I remember Newsweek running articles and polls about that in the mid 90s, the Clinton years. So the talk of the disappearing middle class has been around long before Obama or Bush.

 

[digitize]

Regarding the widening gap between the rich and poor, I remember Newsweek running articles and polls about that in the mid 90s, the Clinton years. So the talk of the disappearing middle class has been around long before Obama or Bush.

But it's worse now than it was under Bush, and it was worse under Bush than it was under Clinton. It's no coincidence that this is such a topic of discussion right now. It's an absolutely frightening problem.

 

[Pearl]

But it's worse now than it was under Bush, and it was worse under Bush than it was under Clinton. It's no coincidence that this is such a topic of discussion right now. It's an absolutely frightening problem.

But there some Americans who think this problem started under Obama and it didn't. That was my point. I agree this problem is frightening and the future looks worrisome.

 

[nbcrusader]

But there some Americans who think this problem started under Obama and it didn't. That was my point. I agree this problem is frightening and the future looks worrisome.

The gap has always been there. Sadly, all the promise of hope and change has left the country far deeper in debt and no better off.

 

[Irvine511]

The gap has always been there. Sadly, all the promise of hope and change has left the country far deeper in debt and no better off.

talk about horrifically vague. no, it hasn't always been there, and it hasn't been this bad since the 1920s:

Income inequality in the United States has grown significantly since the early 1970s,[1][2][3][4][5] after several decades of stability,[6][7] and has been the subject of study of many scholars and institutions. While inequality has risen among most developed countries, and especially English-speaking ones, it is highest in the United States.[8][9][10] Income inequality (as measured by the Gini coefficient) is not uniform among the states: after tax income inequality in 2009 was greatest in Texas and lowest in Maine.[11]
Most of the growth has been between the middle class and top earners, with the disparity becoming more extreme the further one goes up in the income distribution.[12] A 2011 study by the CBO[13] found that the top earning 1 percent of households increased their income by about 275% after federal taxes and income transfers over a period between 1979 and 2007, compared to a gain of just under 40% for the 60 percent in the middle of America's income distribution.[13] Other sources find that the trend has continued since then.[14] In spite of this data, only 42% of Americans think inequality has increased in the past ten years.[15] In 2012, the gap between the richest 1 percent and the remaining 99 percent was the widest it's been since the 1920s.[16] Incomes of the wealthiest 1 percent rose nearly 20 percent, whereas the income of the remaining 99 percent rose 1 percent in comparison.[16]

our debt is due to a revenue problem, and we're all much better off than we were in the fall of 2008. the Obama team were able to avoid a 2nd Great Depression and enter into a slow but clear recovery. he's also extracted us from 2 expensive, bloody wars. he also saved Detroit and Wall Street and meaningful financial reform has been passed. we'll also start to see real, clear health care savings (what will be the real driver to debt in the future) in the states that are adopting the ACA starting October 10 (California and Minnesota already being early examples).

now that the economy is slowly growing and we're not pouring endless blood and treasure into a sand pit, the debt it's better understood as a revenue problem. you have one party fanatically opposed to any income taxes for the wealthy, who at the same time want to literally take food from the mouths of hungry people with their new war on food stamps.

these issues are largely due to the Bush years (war, tax cuts) and the Republicans in Congress (more tax cuts, slashing of the public sector, total opposition to anything proposed by the White House, blaming the poor for debt).

 

[PhilsFan]

Cut taxes on the rich then blame the poor for the economic problems.

 

[Irvine511]

It's this latest food stamp thing that's really bugging me.

 

[INDY500]

Still blaming Obama for the Great Recession? I lost track of how many times it said "during Obama's first term ..."

SHOCKING FACTS! SO SO SHOCKING!

The recession was over 6 months into Obama's presidency. We're now 4 years into "The Obama Recovery."

 

[Irvine511]

The recession was over 6 months into Obama's presidency. We're now 4 years into "The Obama Recovery."

We've seen just how bad the recession was, the damage that was done, and the slowing of progress by a political party who's only (now failed) goal was to make Obama a one-term president.

What, pray tell, would President INDY have done?

(President Irvine would have started with a larger stimulus and he wouldn't have gutted the public sector)

 

[Jive Turkey]

What, pray tell, would President INDY have done?

When has Indy done anything other than point fingers and bitch and complain? His whole fym persona is to blame other people (usually obama) for his perceived societal ills. It's his schtick

 

[Jive Turkey]

.

 

[Jive Turkey]

.

 

[Irvine511]

When has Indy done anything other than point fingers and bitch and complain? His whole fym persona is to blame other people (usually obama) for his perceived societal ills. It's his schtick

Be fair. He sometimes blames gay people for the high % of African-American babies born out of wedlock.

 

[Irvine511]

The recession was over 6 months into Obama's presidency. We're now 4 years into "The Obama Recovery."

idiotic GOP stunts from egomaniacs like Cruz (R-Canada) have, over the past 4 years, done enormous harm to the economy.


Shutdown countdown: What the next eight days could bring - The Washington Post


i believe we've had 40 failed votes to repeal the ACA? it's difficult to keep count.

i know hurting the economy is the point. and i know it might play well to the cheap, uninformed seats, and it lets the Tea Party crowd delay growth and blame Obama for everything under the sun ("thanks, Obama!"), but what it really does is harm other Americans.