United States of Entropy - Page 9 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-20-2013, 08:27 PM   #121
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Jive Turkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 13,646
Local Time: 05:45 AM
Are your values in sync with all the different sects of Christianity as well as with Judaism?

Can we talk about the Christeo-Islamic values Saudi Arabia was founded on?
__________________

__________________
Jive Turkey is offline  
Old 02-20-2013, 08:38 PM   #122
Resident Photo Buff
Forum Moderator
 
Diemen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Somewhere in middle America
Posts: 13,237
Local Time: 04:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
Do you think I have bad values, INDY?
Not bad, per se, just incorrect.
__________________

__________________
Diemen is offline  
Old 02-21-2013, 09:58 AM   #123
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
BEAL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,577
Local Time: 10:45 AM
I guess I don't see what it matters in regards to what religion our founding fathers had? Those of us who aren't christian just get tired of hearing how we are a christian nation, or that we SHOULD be because some dead guys many years ago may or may not have had some affliation with christianity (again, most did believe in a higher power, but would not even be considered remotely xtian by todays standards), but WHAT DOES IT MATTER?

These men were obviously pretty smart, had a wonderful vision for the future of the country (though they also owned slaves, so you can't say there were extremely high in morals), but there is no way they could have predicted things like the Internet, or the advancements in technology in regards to transportation, war, communication.

We see how much of a disconnect there is in regards to something like the 2nd admendment. Or some of the issues presented with the 1st.

It's a living breathing document (constitution), and I believe should be admended as the times change.
__________________
BEAL is offline  
Old 02-21-2013, 11:09 AM   #124
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,492
Local Time: 05:45 AM
i wonder how the "founding fathers" would view the reality of low tax, low spending, small government Florida these days. seems anything but Judeo-Christian to me, unless of course you are a healthy, safely employed person who lives at a higher elevation and can afford private water filters, roads, and private schools.

What's It Like to Wake Up From a Tea Party Binge? Just Ask Florida! | Mother Jones


some highlights:


Quote:
But the people at this clinic may not see many of these benefits, because Gov. Rick Scott and a tea-party-dominated state government have been at the forefront of the revolt against the law—and virtually every other form of government spending.

Even before he was elected in 2010, Scott spent $5 million of his own money—earned leading a health care company that derives much of its revenue from government payments—to fight Obamacare. Florida was the lead plaintiff in the Supreme Court case challenging Obamacare, and even after the court upheld the law, Scott refused to take steps to implement it. His fellow tea partiers are urging lawmakers to do the same: At a hearing in December, activist John Knapp told state legislators, "The American Constitution which you just swore an oath to uphold and defend has been contorted, hijacked, and reduced."

Obamacare is a particular target of tea party wrath in Florida, but it's hardly the only one in a state where the movement's ideology has permeated every layer of government. In just one year, Scott and his conservative allies slashed state spending by $4 billion even as they cut corporate taxes. They've rejected billions in federal funds in one of the states hardest hit by the recession. They've axed everything from health care and public transportation initiatives to mosquito control and water supply programs. "Florida is where the rhetoric becomes the reality. It's kind of the tea party on steroids," says state Rep. Mark Pafford, a Democrat. "We've lost all navigation in terms of finding that middle ground."

Quote:
The "jobs budget," as Scott dubbed it, called for $4.6 billion in spending cuts, with education taking the biggest hit ($3 billion). It included a 17 percent cut to the agency that serves the disabled and proposed dropping virtually everyone but children and pregnant women from a state health program for the medically needy. The savings would be used to slash the corporate income tax from 5.5 to 3 percent, with the goal of eliminating it entirely by 2018. The budget also called for reducing property taxes by $1.4 billion, and cutting unemployment insurance taxes by $300 million, even though Florida's unemployment trust fund was bankrupt. US News columnist Peter Roff dubbed Scott's budget a "tea party dream" and speculated, somewhat prematurely, that it "almost assuredly gets him on the short list for vice president in 2012 or, depending on the outcome of that election, for president in 2016."

Scott didn't get everything he wanted, but the final budget approved by the Legislature was $4.6 billion smaller than it had been in 2006, even though the state's population had grown by more than 700,000. And Scott vetoed a record $615 million worth of spending for, among other things: homeless veterans, meals for seniors, whooping-cough vaccines for low-income mothers, an independent living center for the developmentally disabled, and, of course, public radio.

Quote:
WHERE THE SUN DON'T SHINE
From high-speed trains to care for terminally ill kids: a few of the federal grants Florida has turned down
$2.4 billion: High-speed rail
$37.5 million: Support for people moving out of nursing homes
$31.5 million: Home visits for new mothers
$11.1 million: Teen pregnancy and STD prevention
$8.3 million: Three county health centers
$2.1 million: Helping Floridians navigate the health insurance industry
$2 million: Hospice care for children
$2 million: Aid for seniors to pay for Medicare premiums and buy prescription drugs
$1 million: Strengthening state review of insurance premium increases
$1 million: Insurance exchange to help consumers compare plans and buy subsidized coverage
$875,000: Cancer prevention

Quote:
Meanwhile, the state increased the reimbursement rates for kids in nursing homes and said parents were free to send their children there—even though the Miami Herald recently found that 130 children have died in geriatric nursing homes since 2006, a higher rate than among children cared for at home.

Between July 2011 and June 2012, the "utilization review" contractor reported saving the state nearly $45 million by cutting home health services. That's one reason why Abdel is now part of a class-action lawsuit alleging that Florida has systematically discriminated against disabled children by refusing to provide them with needed services at home. Lawyers for the plaintiffs estimate that Abdel is one of about 250 kids, many of them foster children, who don't belong in geriatric nursing homes but are stuck there, and that there are as many as 5,000 kids in Florida at high risk of ending up institutionalized because the state refuses to pay for home care.

The US Department of Justice has also taken notice. Threatening to sue, the Justice Department warned the state last September that it had "planned, structured, and administered a system of care that has led to the unnecessary segregation and isolation of children, often for many years, in nursing facilities."

"They are not given any toys or games in their room. It's horrible. There's no other word for it. It keeps me up at night."
The DOJ said that by placing medically fragile kids, including infants, in nursing homes, Florida was depriving them of education, socialization, and stimulation they desperately needed. "They're not given any toys or games in their room," Dietz, who accompanied DOJ investigators on one of their visits to Florida nursing homes, told me. "All they do is watch TV day in and day out. It's horrible. There's no other word for it. It keeps me up at night."
Quote:
GOD'S GIFT TO WOMEN
What Rick Scott's budget means for a single mother with two kids
Lost your job? To apply for unemployment benefits, you'll have to spend 45 minutes taking a math and reading test.
Congrats, you passed! Your check will be no more than $275 a week.
But don't get sick—you won't qualify for Florida Medicaid if your income is more than $3,200 a year.
And don't come looking for a postpartum whooping-cough vaccine or meningitis shots for your baby: Scott vetoed $2.7 million to pay for those, along with $100,000 for a fetal alcohol program and $100,000 for a special-needs charter school. Have a nice day.
Quote:
The state has long proposed a high-speed rail line for the 84-mile stretch—the project, for which land had already been purchased and construction permits issued, was considered the most shovel-ready in the country when the US Department of Transportation awarded Florida $2.4 billion in stimulus funding in 2010. The state transportation department estimated that the rail line, envisioned as the first major segment of a high-speed corridor between Orlando and Miami, would have created nearly 50,000 new jobs at a time when the state's unemployment rate was hovering around 12 percent.

Tea party groups, however, saw a Trojan horse for creeping socialism, and with the help of the conservative Reason and Heritage foundations, they set to work killing it. Conservative activists had already beaten back an unrelated Tampa-area ballot initiative that would have raised a penny-per-dollar sales tax for light rail, saying it was laying the groundwork for Agenda 21, a United Nations sustainable-development plan that they believed would "transfer American sovereignty to various tentacles" of the UN.
Quote:
Tea partiers have also risen up to oppose the tyranny of septic-tank inspections. In 2011, activists persuaded the Legislature to overturn a 2010 law that required old and potentially leaky septic systems to get inspected every five years to prevent human waste from seeping into the water supply. "They don't realize the damage done when you remove revenue from the budget," says Pafford, the Democratic legislator from Palm Beach, whose district has seen record flooding in the past year. "We defecate in the water we drink because we don't want government control. At the same time we offer 18 bills on whether a woman can have an abortion. There are a lot of people who miss Gov. [Jeb] Bush—that's where we are."
Quote:
The state Legislature has also done its part to liberate mosquitoes from the shackles of big government. In 2011, the Republican-dominated Legislature slashed the state's contribution to mosquito control by 40 percent. Florida A&M University closed one of two major mosquito research labs in the state after the Legislature axed $500,000 in research funds. Public health officials succeeded in restoring money to keep the lab open, only to see Scott kill it with a stroke of his veto pen. Along with other budget cuts, the closure halved the number of Florida scientists working on mosquito control.

"There's maybe a perfect storm of sorts," says Joseph Conlon, a technical adviser to the American Mosquito Control Association in Florida. "You've got the government rightfully trying to cut budgets across the board, but down here in Florida, the place would be uninhabitable without mosquito control."

praise the Lord, indeed.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 02-21-2013, 12:59 PM   #125
Blue Crack Addict
 
PhilsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Standing on the shore, facing east.
Posts: 18,882
Local Time: 05:45 AM
The Tea Party kind of hates America.
__________________
PhilsFan is offline  
Old 02-21-2013, 01:53 PM   #126
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
BEAL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,577
Local Time: 10:45 AM
Just the sick, poor, edlerly, children, and women.
__________________
BEAL is offline  
Old 02-21-2013, 03:15 PM   #127
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 02:45 AM
could this be a matter of perspective
how one identifies, as a maker or a taker?
__________________
deep is offline  
Old 02-21-2013, 04:18 PM   #128
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,290
Local Time: 05:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
could this be a matter of perspective
how one identifies, as a maker or a taker?
That's exactly what it is.

Although many of those who identify as "makers" should come to realize that the real makers see them as takers. Big difference between making $50K/year, $500K/year and $5M/year...
__________________
anitram is offline  
Old 02-21-2013, 05:24 PM   #129
Blue Crack Addict
 
Moonlit_Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...
Posts: 19,269
Local Time: 04:45 AM
Quote:
$11.1 million: Teen pregnancy and STD prevention
So help me, if I hear even ONE conservative who supported cutting this start in on a "pro-lifer" type of rant or campaign for anti-abortion legislation, I swear...

Quote:
$2 million: Hospice care for children
Quote:
Meanwhile, the state increased the reimbursement rates for kids in nursing homes and said parents were free to send their children there—even though the Miami Herald recently found that 130 children have died in geriatric nursing homes since 2006, a higher rate than among children cared for at home.

Between July 2011 and June 2012, the "utilization review" contractor reported saving the state nearly $45 million by cutting home health services. That's one reason why Abdel is now part of a class-action lawsuit alleging that Florida has systematically discriminated against disabled children by refusing to provide them with needed services at home. Lawyers for the plaintiffs estimate that Abdel is one of about 250 kids, many of them foster children, who don't belong in geriatric nursing homes but are stuck there, and that there are as many as 5,000 kids in Florida at high risk of ending up institutionalized because the state refuses to pay for home care.

The US Department of Justice has also taken notice. Threatening to sue, the Justice Department warned the state last September that it had "planned, structured, and administered a system of care that has led to the unnecessary segregation and isolation of children, often for many years, in nursing facilities."
Keep it classy, Tea Partiers . That is beyond infuriating and anyone with any sembelance of compassion and humanity should be ashamed and embarrassed by that and demanding answers.

Quote:
What Rick Scott's budget means for a single mother with two kids
Lost your job? To apply for unemployment benefits, you'll have to spend 45 minutes taking a math and reading test.
Congrats, you passed! Your check will be no more than $275 a week.
But don't get sick—you won't qualify for Florida Medicaid if your income is more than $3,200 a year.
A reading and math test? REALLY?

Yeah, I think I'm just going to be staying the hell away from Florida for the forseeable future. Good god.
__________________
Moonlit_Angel is online now  
Old 02-21-2013, 08:24 PM   #130
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
Posts: 4,754
Local Time: 04:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anitram View Post
On an entirely separate note, I am still completely baffled by how much stock some Americans put into the founding fathers or their intentions. These were men of their time, who operated within the confines of their time. That is it.

Who cares what their intentions were centuries later? Who cares whether they envisioned America to be religious or not, Christian or Judeo-Christian or wiccan or whatever?
Not to drop names but Bono and I both believe America is unique in that its founding was not based on soil or blood but on an idea. Shouldn't we remember this idea, the American creed, this idea that so set us apart from the rest of the world and history in its description of a new relationship between government and the individual?

Quote:
What bearing does that have on the here and now?
Is the struggle between liberty and tyranny over? Who won?
__________________
INDY500 is offline  
Old 02-21-2013, 08:42 PM   #131
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
Posts: 4,754
Local Time: 04:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BEAL View Post
It's a living breathing document (constitution), and I believe should be admended as the times change.
Of course we dindn't hear about a "living, breathin document" when GWB was expanding ececutive powers and discovering new legal rationals for interrogating enemy combatants after 9/11. He was shreading the Constitution.

Amending the Constitution yes but a living, breathing document is a Wilsonian idea and he despised the Constitution's checks and balances.
__________________
INDY500 is offline  
Old 02-21-2013, 09:36 PM   #132
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
Posts: 4,754
Local Time: 04:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
Do you think I have bad values, INDY?
Do you think this country has a bad values system? Is it changing? Is it improving or deteriorating?
__________________
INDY500 is offline  
Old 02-21-2013, 09:40 PM   #133
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Jive Turkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 13,646
Local Time: 05:45 AM
Oh, Bono said that? Well discussion over then I guess. Well played Indy. Well played

(no blood in America's founding, people.)
__________________
Jive Turkey is offline  
Old 02-21-2013, 09:41 PM   #134
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Jive Turkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 13,646
Local Time: 05:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
Do you think this country has a bad values system? Is it changing? Is it improving or deteriorating?
This is his non answer for saying yes, he thinks you have bad values. This xenophobic, homophobic, ignorance monger thinks you have bad values. do you care?
__________________
Jive Turkey is offline  
Old 02-21-2013, 09:50 PM   #135
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,492
Local Time: 05:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post

Do you think this country has a bad values system? Is it changing? Is it improving or deteriorating?

The world only spins forward.

We will never again be as dominant in all areas of human endeavor like we were in the late 1990s, but that's likely a good thing.

Life today in the US and the world is better than its ever been.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/the-week/.../glad-tidings/
__________________

__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com