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Old 10-19-2013, 10:31 PM   #826
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I believe that Indy is making fun of the argument that Republicans have such vitriol against the President because of his race (an argument that, I must admit, has always struck me as questionable).

I think that many Tea Party Republicans have such vitriol against the president because their constituents have such vitriol against the president because of his race.

Given that Cruz and Palin recently spoke at an organized rally where a featured speaker called on Obama to "put down the Koran," the evidence is ample.
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Old 10-19-2013, 11:24 PM   #827
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I think that many Tea Party Republicans have such vitriol against the president because their constituents have such vitriol against the president because of his race.

Given that Cruz and Palin recently spoke at an organized rally where a featured speaker called on Obama to "put down the Koran," the evidence is ample.
The Koran thing is annoying. But the vitriol, I think, has a lot to do with a sense of malaise that is prevalent throughout the country at the moment, and that quite possibly totally transcends the president's (any president's) ability to help or hurt.
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Old 10-19-2013, 11:26 PM   #828
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The Koran thing is annoying. But the vitriol, I think, has a lot to do with a sense of malaise that is prevalent throughout the country at the moment, and that quite possibly totally transcends the president's (any president's) ability to help or hurt.

It's easy to demagogue an economic crisis.

Hate and fear are almost the same emotion.
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Old 10-20-2013, 10:54 AM   #829
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The Koran thing is annoying. But the vitriol, I think, has a lot to do with a sense of malaise that is prevalent throughout the country at the moment, and that quite possibly totally transcends the president's (any president's) ability to help or hurt.
A far more sensible and rational analysis. It seems that everyone at least knows someone who is unemployed or underemployed. All the promise of "shovel ready projects" to create jobs with the billions spent on stimulus rang largely untrue. The government keeps spending money, but the public seems to be getting far less for their money.
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Old 10-20-2013, 12:01 PM   #830
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Fixed. I didn't know I was a raving racist until 5 years ago either.
You aren't.

According to Mary Frances Berry, this is why we see the left perpetuate the cries of racism with the tea party:

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Tainting the tea party movement with the charge of racism is proving to be an effective strategy for Democrats. There is no evidence that tea party adherents are any more racist than other Republicans, and indeed many other Americans. But getting them to spend their time purging their ranks and having candidates distance themselves should help Democrats win in November. Having one’s opponent rebut charges of racism is far better than discussing joblessness.
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Old 10-20-2013, 01:02 PM   #831
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Pardon me, but wasn't the platform of the Republicans running in the 2010 elections JOBS JOBS JOBS? In the event that you have short memories:

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Before the 2010 congressional elections, Rep. John Boehner (R-Ohio) and his fellow GOPers developed and implemented a simple campaign strategy: say "where are the jobs?" over and over and over.
Then they got elected and the priority was to attempt to repeal or defund Obamacare 43 times and debate birth control and the sluts who take it.

So it's very convenient now to state that the Tea Party is irate at the President because there are no jobs. Why aren't they asking John Boehner where the jobs are? That was their party's PLATFORM, after all.

You can also turn a blind eye to the racism within the Tea Party, as is your prerogative. That doesn't make it any less true that there is a sizeable segment who are flat out racists. Head on over to the Free Republic forums and it will take you about 30 seconds to find photos of Obama as an ape and such similar things. And let's not pretend that at Tea Party rallies these things are absent.
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Old 10-20-2013, 03:29 PM   #832
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Given the amount of racialized buzz words used by the tea party -- "food stamps" and "ACORN" or "Obamaphones" -- as well as the racial demagoguery employed regularly by Fox News (Black panthers! Terrorist fist bumps!) and sites like Drudge, it's quite apparent that the leaders of the Tea Party absolutely feel as if race motivates their constituents. In a nutshell, they know that the creation and perpetuation of the idea that Obama is a black man in the White House using the government to give handouts to lazy black people. This is not new. This fantasy has motivated large sections of the American population since at least 1964. Reagan employed exactly the same tactic with his talk of "Welfare Queens." Smart people craft this kind of language. If it didn't work, we'd see different language. But it does work. It still works. Look at the Birther movement.

What's pernicious is playing a race card by accusing someone of "playing the race card" (as if an accusation of racism is somehow worse than actual racism) and the sputtering faux indignity that follows. Or that the only acceptable "proof" of racism or the influence of race would be for someone to call Obama the N-word on "Meet the Press."

Political strategists know exactly what they are doing, and they know that hate and fear are big motivators. Frankly, they wouldn't be doing their jobs if they didn't use Obama's race to motivate the base.

This is such basic Politics 101 that I can't believe anyone would deny it.
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Old 10-20-2013, 06:45 PM   #833
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And we'll hear it when a female runs for the office from the dem side (Hillary)
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Old 10-20-2013, 07:20 PM   #834
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And we'll hear it when a female runs for the office from the dem side (Hillary)

Yes. Absolutely. It's just politics.

I don't think INDY is a racist. But I do think racialized economic resentment is a part of his (and the tea party's) irrational despising of a rather centrist, somewhat bland president
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Old 10-20-2013, 09:30 PM   #835
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A lot of conservatives I've known had prejudiced attitudes toward non-whites to some degree. Luckily, I've also known conservatives who weren't racist, so I do give conservatives the benefit of the doubt.
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Old 10-20-2013, 10:20 PM   #836
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Yes. Absolutely. It's just politics.

I don't think INDY is a racist. But I do think racialized economic resentment is a part of his (and the tea party's) irrational despising of a rather centrist, somewhat bland president
I want to pose an honest question.

Are there legitimate ways to discuss the substantial ideological differences between the Left and the Right without resorting to cheap, easy, reductionist perspectives? It's sure easy to sling terms like "racist" and "sexist" at the Right, just like it's sure easy to sling terms like "tax and spend" and "socialist" at the Left, but if it's not accurate when labeled at the Left, is it possible that it's not accurate at the Right either?

I understand why people do it -- in this "winner take all, destroy your opponents" environment that we're in, it's impossible to recognize the validity of any argument that isn't your own, because that means -- ZOMG -- I might not completely be 100% right about everything I ever thought. At the same time, we're in a forum called Free Your Mind, for pity's sake, and in a place where we're supposed to figure out how to honestly engage with each other, and be challenged in our thinking, is it possible to interact like...well...people seeking to Free Our Minds?

Or not so much?
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Old 10-20-2013, 11:13 PM   #837
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There are some very smart men who make lots of money by carefully crafting and designing language intended to play upon deep, historical, race-based fears and resentments.

To point this out is hardly cheap or reductionist.

What's reductionist is when someone points this out, and the response is "you're wrong because I'm not a racist."

Like, I know. You're not a racist. Good for you. Get over yourself. No one is saying "if you disagree with Obama you hate black people." In fact, to pretend that is what is being said is what is cheap and reductionist.

What we are talking about, and what is happening, and there is ample evidence, is that race is unquestionably wielded as a political tool to motivate certain segments of the population.
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Old 10-20-2013, 11:24 PM   #838
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Are there legitimate ways to discuss the substantial ideological differences between the Left and the Right without resorting to cheap, easy, reductionist perspectives?
I'm 22 and angry and cynical, but there are a lot of arguments on the right that I find have no merit whatsoever. I find that many political issues aren't simply about differences in opinion, but are actually a right vs. wrong issue, especially on the social side. And it seems like every year that those social issues creep further and further into the economic issues and make me feel like even more issues are becoming about right vs. wrong rather than differences of opinion.

Like, if you think gay marriage should be illegal, that's not your opinion, you're just wrong. You're the guy who thought inter-racial marriage should have been illegal 50 years ago. That guy was wrong, and so are you. Why do we need to act like the view that it should be illegal is legitimate? You have no rational argument for keeping it illegal. Let's not act like this is some 50-50 thing.

I take that view on a number of issues, and that number seems to grow every year as the Tea Party and their ilk spread their influence.
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Old 10-20-2013, 11:44 PM   #839
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A far more sensible and rational analysis. It seems that everyone at least knows someone who is unemployed or underemployed. All the promise of "shovel ready projects" to create jobs with the billions spent on stimulus rang largely untrue. The government keeps spending money, but the public seems to be getting far less for their money.
This seems to me to be an entirely reasonable, debatable, rational point. Was the stimulus worth it? That we can discuss. (And much more useful than big dumb charts on debt).

This is also not what the Tea Party is about. At its heart, the Tea Party is about taxes. They don't want to pay them. Remember what Tea really stands for:

Taxed
Enough
Already

The anti-tax impulse has historically had racism as one of its motivators. Not its sole motivator, but white working class resentment towards African Americans -- seen in everything from welfare to affirmative action -- has been a feature of Anerican politics forever. It should surprise no one that it's found a powerful new form of expression since 2009.
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Old 10-21-2013, 01:55 AM   #840
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Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
There are some very smart men who make lots of money by carefully crafting and designing language intended to play upon deep, historical, race-based fears and resentments.

To point this out is hardly cheap or reductionist.

What's reductionist is when someone points this out, and the response is "you're wrong because I'm not a racist."

Like, I know. You're not a racist. Good for you. Get over yourself. No one is saying "if you disagree with Obama you hate black people." In fact, to pretend that is what is being said is what is cheap and reductionist.

What we are talking about, and what is happening, and there is ample evidence, is that race is unquestionably wielded as a political tool to motivate certain segments of the population.
So the answer is no then. Gotcha.
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