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Old 10-15-2013, 02:30 PM   #721
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We are seeing more and more of the split within the GOP.

Notably, Karl Rove is openly funding Mitch McConnell's re-election efforts and will be tossing a lot of $ into that primary (vs. a rabid Tea Party challenger). This won't be the last such standoff we'll see.
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Old 10-15-2013, 02:53 PM   #722
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thoughts from Krugman:

Quote:
The Dixiecrat Solution
By PAUL KRUGMAN

So you have this neighbor who has been making your life hell. First he tied you up with a spurious lawsuit; you’re both suffering from huge legal bills. Then he threatened bodily harm to your family. Now, however, he says he’s willing to compromise: He’ll call off the lawsuit, which is to his advantage as well as yours. But in return you must give him your car. Oh, and he’ll stop threatening your family — but only for a week, after which the threats will resume.

Not much of an offer, is it? But here’s the kicker: Your neighbor’s relatives, who have been egging him on, are furious that he didn’t also demand that you kill your dog.

And now you understand the current state of budget negotiations.


Stocks surged last Friday in the belief that House Republicans were getting ready to back down on their ransom demands over the government shutdown and the debt ceiling. But what Republicans were actually offering, it seems, was the “compromise” Paul Ryan, the chairman of the House Budget Committee, laid out in a Wall Street Journal op-ed article: rolling back some of the “sequester” budget cuts — which both parties dislike; cuts in Medicare, but with no quid pro quo in the form of higher revenue; and only a temporary fix on the debt ceiling, so that we would soon find ourselves in crisis again.

I do not think that word “compromise” means what Mr. Ryan thinks it means. Above all, he failed to offer the one thing the White House won’t, can’t bend on: an end to extortion over the debt ceiling. Yet even this ludicrously unbalanced offer was too much for conservative activists, who lambasted Mr. Ryan for basically leaving health reform intact.

Does this mean that we’re going to hit the debt ceiling? Quite possibly; nobody really knows, but careful observers are giving no better than even odds that any kind of deal will be reached before the money runs out. Beyond that, however, our current state of dysfunction looks like a chronic condition, not a one-time event. Even if the debt ceiling is raised enough to avoid immediate default, even if the government shutdown is somehow brought to an end, it will only be a temporary reprieve. Conservative activists are simply not willing to give up on the idea of ruling through extortion, and the Obama administration has decided, wisely, that it will not give in to extortion.

So how does this end? How does America become governable again?

One answer might be that we somehow stumble through the next 13 months, and voters punish Republican tactics by returning the House to Democratic control. Recent polls do show a large Democratic advantage on the generic House ballot. But remember, Democratic House candidates already “won” in 2012, in the sense that they received more votes in total than Republicans. Yet the vagaries of district boundaries — partly, but not entirely, the result of gerrymandering — meant that the Republican majority in seats remained, and it would probably take a really huge Democratic sweep to dislodge G.O.P. control.

There is, however, another solution, and everyone knows what it is. Call it Dixiecrats in reverse.

Here’s the precedent: For a long time, starting as early as 1938, Democrats generally controlled Congress on paper, but actual control often rested with an alliance between Republicans and conservative Southerners who were Democrats in name only. You may not like what this alliance did — among other things, it killed universal health insurance, which we might otherwise have had 65 years ago. But at least America had a functioning government, untroubled by the kind of craziness that now afflicts us.

And right now we have all the necessary ingredients for a comparable alliance, with roles reversed. Despite denials from Republican leaders, everyone I talk to believes that it would be easy to pass both a continuing resolution, reopening the government, and an increase in the debt ceiling, averting default, if only such measures were brought to the House floor. How? The answer is, they would get support from just about all Democrats plus some Republicans, mainly relatively moderate non-Southerners. As I said, Dixiecrats in reverse.


The problem is that John Boehner, the speaker of the House, won’t allow such votes, because he’s afraid of the backlash from his party’s radicals. Which points to a broader conclusion: The biggest problem we as a nation face right now is not the extremism of Republican radicals, which is a given, but the cowardice of Republican non-extremists (it would be stretching to call them moderates).

The question for the next few days is whether plunging markets and urgent appeals from big business will stiffen the non-extremists’ spines. For as far as I can tell, the reverse-Dixiecrat solution is the only way out of this mess.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/14/op...tion.html?_r=0
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Old 10-15-2013, 03:22 PM   #723
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but the cowardice of Republican non-extremists (it would be stretching to call them moderates).
That sums all this up well
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Old 10-15-2013, 08:48 PM   #724
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So...the scheduled House vote on the recent Senate agreement to re-open the government and raise the debt ceiling for several more months has been cancelled, because Speaker Boehner can't get the Tea Partiers to vote for it, and passing the bill without them would threaten his Speakership.

So, I see this ending in one of three ways:

1. Boehner falls on his sword and eventually brings the Senate bill to a vote in the house.

2. The Democrats cave into whatever ridiculous demands the Tea Partiers want in a new bill that gets sent to the House(I really hope this doesn't happen).

3. We breach the debt ceiling.
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Old 10-15-2013, 09:06 PM   #725
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The US does not negotiate with terrorists. I do not want to see the Dems cave on this. I know what is at stake if they don't, but this type of governing cannot continue.
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Old 10-15-2013, 09:36 PM   #726
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#3 is the best option, and I'm worried it won't happen.

I just keep shaking my head over how Tea Party types keep saying the liberals will ruin America, bring about a sort of apocalypse, create a dictatorship, etc., yet they are the ones doing this. Its like they put the focus on the liberals to divert attention from what they were doing.
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Old 10-15-2013, 09:43 PM   #727
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Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
it's part of the plan for economic sabotage on the part of the GOP.

these are not conservatives, these are radicals who are willing to wreck the global economy.
The global economy managed to wreck itself just fine in 2008 prior to GOP "radicals" and Ted Cruz coming to Washington.
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Old 10-15-2013, 09:46 PM   #728
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pearl
#3 is the best option, and I'm worried it won't happen.

I just keep shaking my head over how Tea Party types keep saying the liberals will ruin America, bring about a sort of apocalypse, create a dictatorship, etc., yet they are the ones doing this. Its like they put the focus on the liberals to divert attention from what they were doing.
Why do you say #3 is the best option?
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Old 10-15-2013, 10:35 PM   #729
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The global economy managed to wreck itself just fine in 2008 prior to GOP "radicals" and Ted Cruz coming to Washington.
And you want to do it again? Why? Is that all republicans can do? Start wars and wreck economies? It wrecked itself?

I don't pray. But I sure as heck am hoping that the potty-trained Republicans are going to take the keys back from the idiots in the driver's seat.
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Old 10-15-2013, 10:38 PM   #730
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Why do you say #3 is the best option?
That's based on what I've read, that it may be the best solution.

Although as I reread #1 again, that sounds better. But again, will that happen?

I might be overreacting to all of this, but I still freshly remember struggling during the few years after the 2008 downturn. I'm concerned that as I finally get my life back on track, things may fall apart again. How, I don't know and that is what worries me, and if I'll survive it, financially.
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Old 10-15-2013, 11:24 PM   #731
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pearl

That's based on what I've read, that it may be the best solution.

Although as I reread #1 again, that sounds better. But again, will that happen?

I might be overreacting to all of this, but I still freshly remember struggling during the few years after the 2008 downturn. I'm concerned that as I finally get my life back on track, things may fall apart again. How, I don't know and that is what worries me, and if I'll survive it, financially.
You understand that breaching the debt ceiling means not raising it, that it means defaulting on our debt?
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Old 10-15-2013, 11:34 PM   #732
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You understand that breaching the debt ceiling means not raising it, that it means defaulting on our debt?
Oh crap, you're right.

You know, I think I'll just stay away from this topic since I keep letting my worries get the best of me here. I'll come back when my head is cleared.
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Old 10-16-2013, 12:32 AM   #733
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Wow. Just read the most retarded article ever thanks to someone on my Facebook who is a good ole boy super right wing guns freak. I mean really, Cruz has now said Obama is worse than Hitler. Yeah, because Obama started a world war and created Holocaust. I mean seriously, what cornucopia of drugs are these retarded reps of our nation taking to not only believe this garbage, but to say it in interview?
House Republicans Schedule Obama Impeachment Hearings - The Daily Currant
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Old 10-16-2013, 01:40 AM   #734
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Old 10-16-2013, 08:35 AM   #735
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Originally Posted by the tourist View Post
Wow. Just read the most retarded article ever thanks to someone on my Facebook who is a good ole boy super right wing guns freak. I mean really, Cruz has now said Obama is worse than Hitler. Yeah, because Obama started a world war and created Holocaust. I mean seriously, what cornucopia of drugs are these retarded reps of our nation taking to not only believe this garbage, but to say it in interview?
House Republicans Schedule Obama Impeachment Hearings - The Daily Currant
Quote:
"All this clown needs to do is repeal the most important law he ever passed, and then this will all be over. Why is that so hard? The Tea Party represents almost 22 percent of Americans. Only a dictator would refuse to give us everything we want. Obama should be more than impeached -- he should be in jail."
I loved this part!

But you should know the Currant is satire.
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