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Old 10-04-2013, 01:54 PM   #526
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The CR is really not the end of the world.

What should be clear to everyone is that there can be no default. Congress must raise the debt ceiling so that bills can be paid - for things they ALREADY authorized. Not increasing the debt ceiling would be unprecedented.
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Old 10-04-2013, 01:54 PM   #527
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Reading all of this, I am reminded of a quote by Voltaire:

"No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible."
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Old 10-04-2013, 02:14 PM   #528
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Originally Posted by nathan1977 View Post
Reading all of this, I am reminded of a quote by Voltaire: "No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible."
in this case its an avalanche of yellow snow.
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Old 10-04-2013, 02:37 PM   #529
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What should be clear to everyone is that there can be no default. Congress must raise the debt ceiling so that bills can be paid - for things they ALREADY authorized. Not increasing the debt ceiling would be unprecedented.
This reminds me: the existence of a debt ceiling is ridiculous.
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Old 10-04-2013, 03:21 PM   #530
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This reminds me: the existence of a debt ceiling is ridiculous.
Oh man, I would so love if my credit cards didn't have limits.

This from the NY Times on this whole issue:

Millions of Poor Are Left Uncovered by Health Law
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/03/he...law.html?_r=2&

The poorest and most rural states -- incidentally states that carry high proportions of African-Americans -- cannot afford the Medicaid expansion, which leaves their poor out of luck when it comes to affordable care.

No one is dealing with the costs of medical care.

That is the real injustice.
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Old 10-04-2013, 03:26 PM   #531
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The poorest and most rural states -- incidentally states that carry high proportions of African-Americans -- cannot afford the Medicaid expansion, which leaves their poor out of luck when it comes to affordable care.

No one is dealing with the costs of medical care.

That is the real injustice.


did you read the article?

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A sweeping national effort to extend health coverage to millions of Americans will leave out two-thirds of the poor blacks and single mothers and more than half of the low-wage workers who do not have insurance, the very kinds of people that the program was intended to help, according to an analysis of census data by The New York Times.

Because they live in states largely controlled by Republicans that have declined to participate in a vast expansion of Medicaid, the medical insurance program for the poor, they are among the eight million Americans who are impoverished, uninsured and ineligible for help. The federal government will pay for the expansion through 2016 and no less than 90 percent of costs in later years.
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Old 10-04-2013, 03:40 PM   #532
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did you read the article?
I did. You should too:

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In Mississippi, Republican leaders note that a large share of people in the state are on Medicaid already, and that, with an expansion, about a third of the state would have been insured through the program. Even supporters of the health law say that eventually covering 10 percent of that cost would have been onerous for a predominantly rural state with a modest tax base.
Costs. Costs. Costs. The poorest states and the poorest people cannot afford this program.
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Old 10-04-2013, 03:50 PM   #533
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Thank God those poor black people in the poorest states have Republicans to fight on their behalf.
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Old 10-04-2013, 03:57 PM   #534
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I did. You should too: Costs. Costs. Costs. The poorest states and the poorest people cannot afford this program.

The federal government is paying for it, Nathan.
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Old 10-04-2013, 03:58 PM   #535
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Originally Posted by anitram View Post
The CR is really not the end of the world.

What should be clear to everyone is that there can be no default. Congress must raise the debt ceiling so that bills can be paid - for things they ALREADY authorized. Not increasing the debt ceiling would be unprecedented.
The country only defaults if the president wants us to. More than enough revenues come into the treasury each month to pay for debt service and interest on the debt.
As for our bills, well, if we actually paid our bills we wouldn’t have to borrow $1 trillion dollars each year or raise the debt limit every 18 months would we?
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Old 10-04-2013, 04:01 PM   #536
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INDY - are you in favour of the Republican not raising the debt ceiling?
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Old 10-04-2013, 04:12 PM   #537
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INDY - are you in favour of the Republican not raising the debt ceiling?
Do we keep raising the debt limit and monetize our own debt until our economy collapses?

Do we inflate the dollar and repay our debt with worthless dollars as you mentioned earlier?

Or do we actually address the problem of government spending?

Raise the debt limit with equivalent real cuts in spending and a 1 year delay in the sections of Obamacare not already delayed by the president.
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Old 10-04-2013, 04:23 PM   #538
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The problem is revenue just as much as spending. Until you admit that or have it hammered into your skull or whatever has to happen, there's no point doing the Merry-Go-Round with you on economics because you're sticking your fingers in your ears.

I mean, I know you're ignoring me, so this laughably doesn't matter, but Jesus Christ, dude.
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Old 10-04-2013, 04:24 PM   #539
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Do we keep raising the debt limit and monetize our own debt until our economy collapses?
Raising the debt ceiling is related to spending that was already agreed on. The debt ceiling fight is not an appropriate place to hash out the spending.

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Do we inflate the dollar and repay our debt with worthless dollars as you mentioned earlier?
We need to get away from the thinking that inflation is the devil, which view we basically developed in the 70s and have held onto since. Some inflation is good, and at this point, inflation is the only way out. You erroneously equate inflation with "worthless" dollars - we are not talking about Zimbabwe-style hyperinflation here! Rather, something that is manageable but higher than the levels we are experiencing here. BTW, inflation is also the only way to really deal with income inequality at the spreads we are seeing today.

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Or do we actually address the problem of government spending?
Again, that should be dealt with when budgets are passed and NOT when the debt ceiling needs raising. If we continue on this path you will be living from crisis to crisis in your country. There has to be some certainty in the markets for the economy to function efficiently. Debate government spending and revenues in the appropriate venue instead of holding the country hostage every few months.

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Raise the debt limit with equivalent real cuts in spending and a 1 year delay in the sections of Obamacare not already delayed by the president.
Why would the Democrats agree to this? Again, debate spending cuts AND REVENUE (which you so conveniently omit) at the appropriate time. Obamacare, really, 43 attempts at a repeal wasn't enough? So you want to delay it so you can try it another 50 times?

Bottom line is, the Republicans will not allow a default to happen, that much is obvious. This obviates the need to give in to their unreasonable demands.
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Old 10-04-2013, 04:30 PM   #540
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Here is Hank Paulson, I'm sure INDY will tell us he too is an Obama crony...

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The standoff between President Barack Obama and Republicans leaders is different from the 2008 financial crisis because this crisis is "self-inflicted," former Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson told CNBC on Thursday.

...

As a Republican, he admitted that he's taking a lot of grief over the linkage of the budget issues to delaying Obamacare. "There is one element that does not reflect the views of the Republican party. They have hijacked the debate," he said.
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