United States of Entropy - Page 27 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-02-2013, 04:23 PM   #391
LJT
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
LJT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Belfast
Posts: 5,039
Local Time: 05:50 PM
I don't particularly think so. The Democrats while in sway to corporations and what not like the Republicans, they adhere to a less rigid ideology. There positions tend to have a bit more of a natural sway to them. There is a tad less dogma, such as overt religious stuff and the constitution is sacrosanct (which is kinda just more religious stuff).

I don't know anyone over here who don't think the Republicans come across as just nuts. People tend not to have much an opinion on the democrats one way or the other.
__________________

__________________
LJT is offline  
Old 10-02-2013, 04:54 PM   #392
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,656
Local Time: 10:50 AM
The majority of our politicians act like children; it's just that the Democrats are the middle schoolers, Republicans are 4th graders and the Tea Party are a bunch of spoiled toddlers going through an extended terrible twos phase.
__________________

__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 10-02-2013, 06:53 PM   #393
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
Posts: 4,754
Local Time: 10:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
INDY, can you tell me, when it comes to the Establishment GOP vs the Tea Party, who are the Sunnis and who are the Shiites?
Quote:
Is "terrorists" actually too kind?

http://m.us.wsj.com/articles/a/SB100...?mg=reno64-wsj
Terrorist?

Is that what we are now calling peaceful Americans working through political and legislative processes to STOP or curtail what they perceive to be an unmoored-from-the-Constitution, out-of-control federal government that is spending the nation into unsustainable debt and economic ruin?
__________________
INDY500 is offline  
Old 10-02-2013, 07:17 PM   #394
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,474
Local Time: 11:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
Terrorist? Is that what we are now calling peaceful Americans working through political and legislative processes to STOP or curtail what they perceive to be an unmoored-from-the-Constitution, out-of-control federal government that is spending the nation into unsustainable debt and economic ruin?

What political and legislative process are they using to prevent the implementation of what is THE LAW as affirmed by both houses if Congress, the SCOTUS, and 2 national elections? It's THE LAW.

There are lots of laws I don't like, but I'm not holding the government hostage and keeping poor kids from going to Head Start because I can't get my way.

All this to prevent poor people from getting health care. You must be so proud.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 10-02-2013, 07:21 PM   #395
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
Posts: 4,754
Local Time: 10:50 AM
I'm going to be away from computers for a month so I wanted to get this thread back on track with my opening two paragraphs from my introductory post:

Quote:
First, what this is and isn't.

This isn't to say these negative trends didn't precede President Obama, most did, often by decades, nor do I assume that the election of Mitt Romney was the solution to all our problems. Nor frankly am I enamored with the current Republican leadership. This is to say that President Obama has failed to provide the leadership this country needs and in fact over and over provides the wrong answers and prescriptions for our problems. Sadly the election of Barack Obama will only prolong and deepen what I see as our national entropy.

After the 2012 election I, like many conservatives, had to go micro for a while and concern myself only with work, church, friends and family. It was simply too sad to realize that the last chance to change course had come and gone and now my generation (born in the 60's and early 70's) was to be the first generation to pass on to our children a less prosperous America. One with less economic opportunity and optimism for the future.
And there is now amble proof that my generation will in fact be the first to leave a less opportunistic, less optimistic country to its prodigy.

http://online.wsj.com/public/resourc...orce092913.pdf

Quote:
“We can wishfully think that eventually it’s going to get better, but we don’t really know, and that doesn’t really help us now.” – Derek Wetherell, 23.

“This has been for quite a while now a hostile environment for young people…This is all they’ve really known.” – Paul Taylor, Pew Research Center.

“I have a hard time planning 10 years in the future when I can hardly plan three months in the future.” – John Connolly, 22.

"But there are signs that the weak economy is leading to deep societal changes. An entire generation is putting off the riturals of early adulthood: moving away, getting married, buying a home and having children."

“I kind of did everything I was quote-unquote ‘supposed’ to be doing.” -Connolly, 22.

“We end up paying a huge price for all of this because these kids don’t earn, they don’t pay taxes, they stay at home, they don’t get married.” -Andrew Sum, Northwestern University economist.

“In a recession, you’re probably going to be starting out at a lower wage at a less attractive firm… The first few years is about carving your path, and after three or four years you’re not newly minted anymore. You’ve chosen your career.” -Till von Wachter, UCLA economist.

“You don’t dream big.” – Emily Koehler, 23.
This is what this thread is about.
__________________
INDY500 is offline  
Old 10-02-2013, 07:24 PM   #396
Blue Crack Addict
 
PhilsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Standing on the shore, facing east.
Posts: 18,866
Local Time: 11:50 AM
When I think of the generation that screwed my generation's economy, I think of the current Republican Party.
__________________
PhilsFan is offline  
Old 10-02-2013, 09:13 PM   #397
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,474
Local Time: 11:50 AM
The Bush years of endless war and unfunded tax cuts do seem like the logical starting point.

Sounds entropic to me.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 10-03-2013, 12:19 AM   #398
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
AEON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 09:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
The Bush years of endless war and unfunded tax cuts do seem like the logical starting point.

Sounds entropic to me.
I don't see how anyone can seriously think that one political party, made up of your fellow citizens, is actually to blame for all the ills of a nation. It seems so narrow-minded and...boring.
__________________
AEON is offline  
Old 10-03-2013, 12:20 AM   #399
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
AEON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 09:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVS View Post
The majority of our politicians act like children; it's just that the Democrats are the middle schoolers, Republicans are 4th graders and the Tea Party are a bunch of spoiled toddlers going through an extended terrible twos phase.
Sounds about right...I would only have the Democrats in 5th grade, but you're close.
__________________
AEON is offline  
Old 10-03-2013, 12:21 AM   #400
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
AEON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 09:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilsFan View Post
When I think of the generation that screwed my generation's economy, I think of the current Republican Party.
That doesn't make any sense - a political party is not a "generation"
__________________
AEON is offline  
Old 10-03-2013, 08:06 AM   #401
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
maycocksean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Most Important State in the Union
Posts: 4,882
Local Time: 11:50 AM
Guys, remember when the Dems shut down the government in 2005 after adding defunding of the Iraq War to the usual extension of spending. See guys, both parties do it.

Oh wait a minute, that never happened...
__________________
maycocksean is offline  
Old 10-03-2013, 08:44 AM   #402
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Popmartijn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 32,543
Local Time: 05:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitize View Post
Just to play devil's advocate here: how is President Obama not holding the economy hostage by insisting that he will sign no budget without funding for the potentially economically deleterious Affordable Care Act?
Also, this is not regarding the statements of the president, but regarding the proposal by the senate, but it looks like the senate resolution was already quite a compromise (as in, with a funding quite a bit lower than the original budget).


(from Chart of the Day - Taegan Goddard's Wonk Wire )
__________________
Popmartijn is offline  
Old 10-03-2013, 09:33 AM   #403
Blue Crack Addict
 
PhilsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Standing on the shore, facing east.
Posts: 18,866
Local Time: 11:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AEON View Post
That doesn't make any sense - a political party is not a "generation"
No, I said that the GOP perfectly encapsulates everything that's wrong with that generation. There's a difference.

I think the last 15 or so years have made it abundantly clear that our markets need at least some regulation, yet the GOP will somehow blame government interference as the reason things are bad, despite government interference in the economy only dwindling over that time period.
__________________
PhilsFan is offline  
Old 10-03-2013, 11:40 AM   #404
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
AEON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 09:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilsFan View Post
No, I said that the GOP perfectly encapsulates everything that's wrong with that generation. There's a difference.

I think the last 15 or so years have made it abundantly clear that our markets need at least some regulation, yet the GOP will somehow blame government interference as the reason things are bad, despite government interference in the economy only dwindling over that time period.
Ok, I see what you're saying. Thanks for clarifying.
__________________
AEON is offline  
Old 10-03-2013, 11:42 AM   #405
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,474
Local Time: 11:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AEON View Post
I don't see how anyone can seriously think that one political party, made up of your fellow citizens, is actually to blame for all the ills of a nation. It seems so narrow-minded and...boring.

i'm sorry you feel that way.

i've never said "all" the ills of a nation lie at the feet of the GOP. but there's not much question that the mess we're in today is the fault of the Bush administration, the GOP controlled congress, and the Democrats who aided and abetted them as they started multiple wars on credit cards and handed out unfounded tax cuts to the wealthiest among us.

but there's really not much of a question that the GOP no longer functions as an actual political party, and they're willing to hold a nation hostage to appease a minority within a minority. they are willing to bring suffering on the American people simply because they don't want to follow the law.

it's preposterous, and absurd, and as i look at my furloughed friends, the closed museums and zoos, the tourists scratching their heads wondering what's so awful about giving poor people access to health care like every other country in the developed world, and the children who can't go to Head Start while their hard working, low-income parents scramble to find child care so they won't be fired, i get angrier and angrier.

this all exists for the benefit of Ted Cruz, and it demonstrates how a group of mouth breathing idiot radicals -- the "tea party" -- have been taught to so loath people different from them that they'd hurt their neighbors for the political betterment of this vainglorious asshole.

to blame the entirety of Congress or think that the blame lies on both parties equally is to not understand the goals and mission of this radical wing of the Republican Party.

what the wealthy backers of the "tea party" believe is that our government is a hindrance to their goals of maximizing their own profits. their only motivation is to get government out of the way of their own businesses so that they can make more money. this is a strategic long-term campaign to delegitimize any organization, person, or structure that stands in that path.

they believe that government is bad and does not provide for individuals or businesses anything that the private sector could. they do not believe that sometimes individuals fail and should have a safety net or that when we come together collectively we can do things that we'd never be able to do on our own.

so they have set out to change perceptions in the general public and better align the values of America with their own. they work very hard and spend lots of money to make us even more competitive with each other and even more resentful of anyone that we thought might be getting something we were not getting -- and they use coded language ("food stamps=blacks" "amnesty=Mexicans" "anti-family=gays") as a weapon to stir up real fears about modernity. they then assign blame for that to the very structures that actually helped to build a middle class and stabilized our economy for the past 60 years.

they started with the poor. the perception of "welfare queens" and free-loaders is not supported anywhere by data, only anecdote and racist prejudice. the data does not support that food stamps are used incorrectly.

then they went after unions. weekends, overtime, protections against discrimination, medical care, and sick time (yet, no legally paid maternity leave!). this is because of unions. unions are far from perfect, but unions created the middle class. the middle class is, to people like the Koch Brothers and Sheldon Adelson, a hinderance to more capital flowing upwards, so crush the unions.

they demonize public workers too. let's not praise the State Department or Transportation Department experts who have worked tirelessly for years to advance the goals of the US, let's lump them in with the one cranky person at the DMV, who really has a shit job when you think about it, and say that all government employees are lazy, or worthless, or should be furloughed.

the goal is to obliterate the system itself, and the best way to do that is to get the American public to say "Congress is evil and must go." and use the corporate-owned media, including "journalists" who provide the easy villain that every-day Americans are looking for to explain the mess their lives have sometimes become, or why it isn't as good as they thought it was going to be. tell people that a paradise of huge salaries lies after they have destroyed the institutions that created the middle and working classes themselves.

our institutions are not perfect. they need constant attention, refinement, and the ability to adapt to a rapidly changing world. however, the must not be destroyed or denigrated to a point where they can no longer function for those that need them.

there is not blame to go around. it belongs squarely in one place.

McCain and Boehner and McConnell would agree with me.
__________________

__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com