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Old 04-16-2013, 12:09 PM   #226
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Not that I'm necessarily helping things, but the tone in here has gotten uncomfortable.

I'm going to step out.
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Old 04-16-2013, 01:28 PM   #227
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Not that I'm necessarily helping things, but the tone in here has gotten uncomfortable.
And/or unnecessarily hostile. There are better ways to express frustration or even vehement disagreement than:

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And let's be clear: you saying that North Korea is a perfect example of liberty vs. equality is laughably, almost reprehensibly, FUCKING STUPID.
or

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I'm really, really tempted to just tell you to fuck off after these two embarrassing recent posts.
or

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and it hurts your argument/makes you sounds like a dick.
Given that no one involved here is new to FYM, by now we should have a pretty good idea of other posters' debate tactics, and ratcheting up the personal digs/aggression isn't going to help suddenly change anyone's mind, and only serves to make the place more confrontational.
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Old 04-16-2013, 01:42 PM   #228
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I am not even sure I want to bother replying to this post. My entire argument has been that you lack an understanding about that the Left is about, and your idea was to dig deeper and specifically define just how wrong you are about what people on the left believe in? I don't get it. I'm not going to go through and try to correct you one by one on each way you are wrong. Let me just say this: this proves why you are so difficult to talk to. You have no idea what anyone is saying to you. Either you lack an understanding of this discourse or are willfully ignorant and would prefer to paint your opponents as strawmen who want the government to take money from rich people and give it to them.

Seriously, you're acting as if Al Sharpton and a kid from Howard University are the epitome of everything everyone on the left believes in. But yeah, hey, correct you if you're wrong about me personally, right!

What an asinine way to handle an argument. You basically said this: I'm going to tell you what I assume you believe in because EVERYONE ON THE LEFT BELIEVES THIS AND THAT'S A TRUE FACT, but let me know where you differ from the Big Bad Left!

And let's be clear: you saying that North Korea is a perfect example of liberty vs. equality is laughably, almost reprehensibly, FUCKING STUPID.
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Didn't I just say in my post "If we govern with the idea that if you pull yourself up by your bootstraps you're going to succeed and that if you're poor you didn't, we're going to ignore plenty of major problems in this country."

Yet here you go, saying if only people did the common sense thing and pulled themselves up by their bootstraps everything would be fine. Either they're too lazy or stupid to do it, right? Either they lack the common sense or the American work ethic to accomplish this?

I'm really, really tempted to just tell you to fuck off after these two embarrassing recent posts. Please prove me wrong.
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Old 04-16-2013, 03:55 PM   #229
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The nature of the problem in the topic in this thread is that people expect too much from the government.
Stop wishing for perfect conditions and that the government is responsible for your well being.
When people adopt this "new" way of thinking, discussions such as this one will be inexistent.
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Old 04-16-2013, 05:18 PM   #230
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Old 04-16-2013, 05:37 PM   #231
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That was a great episode.

Maybe we can all agree to agree on that.
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Old 04-16-2013, 06:33 PM   #232
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The nature of the problem in the topic in this thread is that people expect too much from the government.
Stop wishing for perfect conditions and that the government is responsible for your well being.
When people adopt this "new" way of thinking, discussions such as this one will be inexistent.
Is this meant to be wise? Because you really aren't saying anything profound, but seem to think you are
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Old 04-16-2013, 08:46 PM   #233
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Originally Posted by PhilsFan View Post
I am not even sure I want to bother replying to this post. My entire argument has been that you lack an understanding about that the Left is about, and your idea was to dig deeper and specifically define just how wrong you are about what people on the left believe in? I don't get it. I'm not going to go through and try to correct you one by one on each way you are wrong. Let me just say this: this proves why you are so difficult to talk to. You have no idea what anyone is saying to you. Either you lack an understanding of this discourse or are willfully ignorant and would prefer to paint your opponents as strawmen who want the government to take money from rich people and give it to them.

Seriously, you're acting as if Al Sharpton and a kid from Howard University are the epitome of everything everyone on the left believes in. But yeah, hey, correct you if you're wrong about me personally, right!

What an asinine way to handle an argument. You basically said this: I'm going to tell you what I assume you believe in because EVERYONE ON THE LEFT BELIEVES THIS AND THAT'S A TRUE FACT, but let me know where you differ from the Big Bad Left!

And let's be clear: you saying that North Korea is a perfect example of liberty vs. equality is laughably, almost reprehensibly, FUCKING STUPID.
Except from President Obama to radical environmentalist to Occupy Wall St I can quote my strawmen and that's the meanest thing one can do... quote a Leftist. Call it social justice, leveling the playing field, fairness, shared prosperity, environmental justice or income inequality; what motivates and propels the Left is inequality of outcome and the desire to solve it through welfare-state egalitarianism.

Need proof?

Here we are in the 2nd term of our most leftist president and what do we have? What a surprise; bigger and more intrusive government, 4 straight years of $trillion deficits, higher taxes on wealth and calls for them to go even higher, a scheme to transfer healthcare decisions from the physician's office to a panel of masterminds in Washington D.C. and record numbers of Americans receiving food stamps, and unemployment insurance and Medicaid and S.S. Disability. Ya gotta spread the wealth around right?

I guess I can't blame you for throwing in the towel.

Maybe I'll start a new thread: why can't people on the Left converse without profanity?
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:01 PM   #234
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I find your characterization of Obama as the "most leftist" president to be amusing and detached from reality.
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:02 PM   #235
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a scheme to transfer healthcare decisions from the physician's office to a panel of masterminds in Washington D.C.
But this is okay if it's abortion, right?
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:20 PM   #236
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He'd just prefer that it was panels of masterminds at insurance companies making health decisions for everyone.
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:32 PM   #237
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what motivates and propels the Left is inequality of outcome and the desire to solve it through welfare-state egalitarianism.
It's awfully convenient of you to just decide that "the Left" is a homogenous mass that engages in lockstep groupthink.


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Here we are in the 2nd term of our most leftist president
You state this as if it were fact, without actually supplying any facts.

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a bigger and more intrusive government,
Well if this is one of the facts then I suppose you could've said the exact same thing during the second Bush term. Hey... why weren't you up in arms then?

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4 straight years of $trillion deficits,
When you need to take immediate action to save the country from the 2nd great depression, you will incur some deficits.

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higher taxes on wealth and calls for them to go even higher,
So high they would return to the same level back when... we had a balanced budget and the rich were still increasing their wealth at a much higher rate than anyone else in the country.

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a scheme to transfer healthcare decisions from the physician's office to a panel of masterminds in Washington D.C.
This is just flat out lazy and inaccurate. Besides, you seem to be arguing that you'd rather have healthcare decisions made by those who stand to profit the most from those decisions.

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Maybe I'll start a new thread: why can't people on the Left converse without profanity?
Take away the profanity and he still has some excellent points you've failed to address.
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:41 PM   #238
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Off of the current topic, but, Indy, I owe you an apology for never responding to your long post directed at me many moons ago. Life gets busy and forum-dissertations take a back seat.
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:55 PM   #239
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He'd just prefer that it was panels of masterminds at insurance companies making health decisions for everyone.

Bingo.

This idea that you and your physician are making these decisions together hasn't been true for a long time.
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Old 04-16-2013, 10:46 PM   #240
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Graduate, get a job, and then have children after you get married and your chances of living in poverty are almost zero.
For real? Is this sarcasm?

And if your spouse gets laid off? or develops a debilitating disease? or your child has disabilities?

The scenarios that could destroy this fantasy could go on and on. Was there any research to support this?
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