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Old 05-03-2006, 10:28 AM   #61
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I'm skipping it. I lived through that day -- I don't need to watch it on the screen.

I think another big issue for me, and ouizy mentioned it above, is the fact that they used so much of the WTC in their promos. The posters were the worst. When I first saw them with the plane, the towers in flames and a huge Statue of Liberty, my first reaction was "I thought United 93 crashed in Pennsylvania, not in New York." I was right, of course, so why all the NYC references?

I also don't like the fact that this has been, or at least seems to be, promoted as a documentary. It's totally a fictional drama. No one knows most of what happened on that plane between the passengers and terrorists except for those who died.

As for the Oliver Stone WTC movie, I'm not so sure about that one yet. I saw a picture in Entertainment Weekly from the film of Nic Cage in the movie in a recreation of the WTC mall. I found it facinating and heartbreaking -- it really did look like the mall and was very accurate but maybe too accurate for my taste. The last time I was in that mall was Sept. 10, 2001. I wish I could go back and see it again even if it is on screen but that may be too much for me.
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Old 05-03-2006, 09:48 PM   #62
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So, when is the "right" time to make a film like this?
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Old 05-04-2006, 09:51 AM   #63
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Originally posted by angelordevil
So, when is the "right" time to make a film like this?
Good question.

The answer depends.

If you were really close to the situation, perhaps never. If I'd lost friends, loved ones etc in such a violent and horrible way (or any way, really) I might never want to live through it again on film. Or perhaps I might, if I felt like it would honor their memory. I don't know. . .obviously those close to the situation have had both responses.

If, like most of us, the tragedy was on a larger, less personal scale, then the answer is, if the movie is to be "pop corn" entertainment then it should be a very long time--like fifty years.

If it is meant to be a way of dealing with, memorializing, provoking thought about a national tragedy through the artistic medium of film, the answer is almost any time is the "right" time for such a film.

What's interesting is how much more controversial this film has been then say, Bruce Springsteen's The Rising which came out--what like a year after 9/11. (I loved that album though). It's like music is considered a more serious and appropriate means of responding to tragic events artistically.
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Old 05-04-2006, 03:47 PM   #64
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Originally posted by maycocksean

What's interesting is how much more controversial this film has been then say, Bruce Springsteen's The Rising which came out--what like a year after 9/11. (I loved that album though). It's like music is considered a more serious and appropriate means of responding to tragic events artistically.
I actually think alot of that has to do with how Springsteen expressed himself vs. this movie. The album was called The Rising for a reason -- it was uplifting and more of a "I've been through the darkness and I see the light" kind of vibe.

This is a dramatization of people dying at the hands of terrorists. We all knew the ship would sink at the end of "Titanic" and we all know the plane crashes. But I just think it's too dramatic, too raw and just smacks of commercialism to me.
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Old 05-04-2006, 04:14 PM   #65
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I'm with sharky, the film or filmmaker itself might take the proper respects but it doesn't look like the film studio gave a damn about misusing the images. I can't speak much to it, I haven't seen the film but I am definitely leaning that way (that the promotion has been tacky).

that said, the Oliver Stone film might be something different, it might have a message of unity or perseverance or determination.

There is always an opportunity to do something great on a such a heavy topic (Schindler's List) that really can resonate, but that window is sooo small and when it's Oliver Stone, it's even smaller.

angelordevil asks a great question.
IMO, and just my take, if this is a subject that should be offlimits now, then what is to change in 10,20,30 years?
It just becomes less painful? That shouldn't change the effect or intention of the film.

I think anyone should be able to make any film they want and after that it's certainly up to each and every person as to whether they'll go see it.

So that's my answer to your question, it should be up to each and every person, just like grieving, it's a case by case basis.
Simplistic, but it's the only way. I don't want anyone telling me the films I can't watch or vice versa. But we should all have the right to point out some blatant commercialization, but it shoudn't be surprising, I guess.

I do think it's appropriate to question the motivation of these filmmakers or moreso the film studios, who are just greedy business men like anyone else. From the reviews it looks like Greengrass did it up proper, unfortunately he doesn't get to promote his own film.
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Old 05-04-2006, 08:51 PM   #66
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Both of your replies are great. It really is interesting how music is perceived differently than film. Maybe this speaks a lot about us as human beings, and just how important visuals are.

In terms of the movie promotion, I'd certainly rally against any type of tackiness, or cheapening of my family's memory. I haven't yet seen those ads you mention here in Canada. I'm not sure if this true, but I have read that some of the victims' family members actually helped with the promoting after seeing the film. If the report is accurate, it's an important vote of confidence.
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Old 05-31-2006, 04:09 PM   #67
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(AFP)US President George W. Bush late Tuesday hosted an "emotional" White House screening of the film "United 93," with relatives of some of the passengers who died aboard the September 11, 2001 flight attending, his spokesman said.

"It was a very emotional night, because you had family members and a handful of the families had not seen the movie before," White House spokesman Tony Snow told reporters Wednesday.

"At the conclusion ... it has a very powerful ending, and it's dead silent as the credits roll" except for "the sounds of quiet sobbing in the room," he said.

"It was an extraordinarily moving event," said Snow.

After the screening of the film -- the first major movie to address the 2001 events -- Bush met and spoke with some of the families, the spokesman said.
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Old 08-12-2006, 08:50 AM   #68
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What about World Trade Center, has anyone seen it? I saw it yesterday, thought it was quite well done. It was a very emotional experience, the main point being that we must remember and honor the goodness that arose from and during that time while we remember the evil and sadness. There are a few graphic moments in it, but it is not gory, not as gory as it could have been or as what happened was. The most graphic stuff ultimately involves the real people involved and their families, and the real emotions you feel.

I had a few problems with it, my main one was probably the Marine character. So stereotypical and over the top and his dialogue was not credible- I don't know if it was actually based on anything he really said or what he was like as a person.

If nothing else, it really reminds you of the true heroism of the NYPD, the NYFD, and the Port Authority . Of everyone on that day and the days that followed. Something that might fade away, that we might take for granted.

This review raises a good question

http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/.../60724007/1023

"A closing voice-over states the movie's theme, to the effect of, "I saw good that day." And it's true -- catastrophe can bring out the best in people, more than they even knew they had in them, and 9/11 witnessed countless heroic, compassionate and selfless acts. But perhaps the most emotionally resonant moment in "WTC" comes in a passage after the collapse of the towers, when the movie flashes to televised reactions from all over the globe. It's a reminder that 9/11 also represents a missed opportunity. In addition to remembering the victims and the many who risked -- and gave -- their lives trying to help others, it's important to remember the intense, "We are all Americans" outpouring of grief and sympathy that united so much of the world on that day, and for just a few days or weeks afterwards, before politicians had reduced 9/11 to an election slogan. And it's a sad, terrible reminder of the enormous good we've lost in the five years since. Had we been able to build on those feelings, it would have been the most constructive and meaningful tribute to those who were killed, and to their families, and to those who survived. Maybe this is a political movie after all."
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Old 08-12-2006, 04:15 PM   #69
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World Trade Center =

Not as good as Flight 93 though.
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Old 08-12-2006, 04:46 PM   #70
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I'll probably see it.
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Old 08-12-2006, 07:33 PM   #71
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World Trade Center has gotten positive reviews from Cal Thomas, Michael Medved and National Review.
You could have gotten pretty good odds in Vegas against that happening when it was announced Oliver Stone was going to direct a 9/11 movie.
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Old 08-13-2006, 02:03 AM   #72
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I did not enjoy World Trade Center as I did United 93. I felt that United 93 was more 'realistic'. Partially because of the use of the real people, and because of the use of non-famous actors.
World Trade felt like a parade of celebrities over and over. Stephen Dorff.
Secondly, the dialogue quite frankly sucked. It was cliche, the lines at most times were forced by the actors. It felt like they tried to make another story out of 9/11 instead of giving a real backstory on their lives. I honestly went through some parts of this movie forgetting it was 9/11 and just picturing two people trapped under rubble. Are you telling me that the entire time they were trapped down there, not one of them spectulated as to what happened above?
I didn't feel for either family. In fact, the only two characters I cared for were Michael Pena's and the woman that had lost her son in the elevator shaft and was waiting in the hospital. Aside from them, I was not impressed by anybody's acting.

United 93 > World Trade Center.

Much, much better film. It felt more like a documentary and not a story that's been turned Hollywood. That's what I want to see in a "real life disaster" movie. Maybe 50 years from now they can get away with bastardizing 9/11 like they did with Pearl Harbor in the movie Pearl Harbor.
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Old 08-13-2006, 10:29 AM   #73
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http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion...wtc-edit_x.htm

"And yet in less than a year, the very event that had inspired this awesome breath of unity had begun to tear us apart. In what now seems like an instant, September 11 got ugly.

It became the driving force behind an unpopular, divisive war, waged against a country that played no role in the terrorist attacks.

It became a weapon in two national elections, recklessly waved about by politicians hell-bent on challenging the patriotism of their opponents.

It became Valerie Plame and Halliburton, wiretaps and funding fights, POWs and WMDs.

Just like the sickening footage of the Twin Towers pancaking down onto themselves, our pride as an undivided nation collapsed in the blink of an eye, leaving us wandering in the dust ever since.

If you think you were immune to this distressing transformation, try to remember the way you spoke about 9/11 to the guy in the next cubicle back in 2001, and the surprising ease with which you shared your feelings. Now imagine talking to him today — about the "war on terror," or the fighting in Fallujah, or the congressional debate over prisoners at Guantanamo Bay. Would you be just as candid with your thoughts? Would he?

The real tragedy is, this didn't have to be. Not since Pearl Harbor had the nation felt so blindingly compelled to pull together. But rather than hold fast to that common purpose — to invest in what Lincoln called "the bonds of fraternal feeling" — we squandered the moment, then sped off in the other direction.

Stone's film faithfully — respectfully — returns us to those sacred moments in late 2001, when what really mattered was the love we felt for one another, and for our country. As a stirring survival story, it reminds us that a handful of souls salvaged from the twisted carnage that had claimed thousands could still be a blessing. It is a tragically beautiful film.

Three weeks ago I went downtown to see Ground Zero for the first time in a few years. At the far east end of the mammoth excavation hole is a concrete observation deck, where New Yorkers and tourists can contemplate what is now a somber construction site for the planned Freedom Tower and 9/11 memorial.

A few dozen of us lined up along the chain-link fence, craning our necks upward to read a moment-to-moment chronology of the fiery chaos that had raged less than a hundred yards from where we stood. The summer sun was brutal, yet we all remained there, hands to foreheads, shielding our eyes against the glare as we read in silence.

It is my hope that Oliver Stone's World Trade Center inspires moviegoers to do the same thing — to squint against the harsh light of day in an effort to recall, even for just two hours, the common humanity that we, the people, felt on the morning of September 12."
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Old 08-13-2006, 10:17 PM   #74
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I am joining this thread rather late but wanted to see what you all were thinking about these films. I've really enjoyed reading the varied perspective here.

I saw WTC last night and like many of you went with a lot of skepticism and dread as I didn't really think I was ready or the world was ready to relive those events. I was also kinda pissed about Hollywood already trying to make a buck on a such a tragic event. Seeing the movie was a good thing though - it really reinforced the the idea that people are inherently good and do help each other out. It is too bad though that the initial goodness that comes out of a tradegy isn't remembered and that such hatred has risen in the world because of the events of that day.
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Old 08-15-2006, 08:36 AM   #75
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The other Marine has come forward

By David B. Caruso, Associated Press | August 15, 2006

NEW YORK -- For years, authorities wondered about the identity of a former Marine who appeared at the World Trade Center on Sept. 11, 2001, helped find a pair of police officers buried in the rubble, then vanished.

Even the producers of the new film chronicling the rescue, ``World Trade Center," couldn't locate the mystery serviceman. The only name he'd given at the scene was ``Sergeant Thomas."

The puzzle was finally solved when Jason Thomas, of Columbus, Ohio, happened to catch a TV commercial for the new movie a few weeks ago as he relaxed on his couch. His eyes widened as he saw two Marines with flashlights, hunting for survivors atop the smoldering ruins.

``That's us. That's me!" thought the New York native, now working as a court officer in Ohio's Supreme Court.

Thomas, 32, reemerged last week to recount the role he played in the rescue of Port Authority police officers Will Jimeno and Sergeant John McLoughlin, who were entombed beneath 20 feet of debris when the twin towers collapsed.

Now a father of five, Thomas had been out of the Marine Corps for about a year when the terrorists struck. He was dropping a daughter off at his mother's Long Island home when she delivered the news.

``My mother insisted it must be an accident," he said. Thomas believed differently.

Rushing to his car, he dug in his trunk, retrieved his Marine uniform and put it on.

Minutes later, he was speeding toward Manhattan, eventually finding himself on the West Side Highway following a convoy of police cars. He had just parked when one of the towers collapsed.

``All I saw was ash. Ash coming in my direction," Thomas said.

As it billowed around him, he knelt by the side of his car and pulled his shirt up over his mouth. Then, he got up and ran at the center of the cloud.

``Someone needed help. It didn't matter who," he said. ``I didn't even have a plan. But I have all this training as a Marine, and all I could think was, `My city is in need."'

Thomas spent hours putting people on stretchers and setting up triage stations before bumping into another former Marine, Staff Sergeant David Karnes. Like him, Karnes had also grabbed his fatigues and headed into Manhattan when he learned of the attacks.

Acting on their own, the pair decided to search for survivors. Carrying little more than flashlights and an infantryman's shovel, they climbed the mountain of debris and began an hours-long hunt, skirting dangerous crevasses and shards of red-hot metal, calling out ``Is anyone down there? United States Marines!"

It was dark before they finally heard a response. The two crawled into a deep pit to find McLoughlin and Jimeno, injured but alive.

Even then, getting help wasn't easy. Thomas clambered back to the surface and feverishly tried to flag down other rescuers in the dark. Karnes phoned his sister in Pennsylvania and had her relay their location to 911 dispatchers.

Jimeno would spend 13 hours in the pit before he was pulled free. Thomas stayed long enough to see him come up, but couldn't find the strength to wait for McLoughlin, who remained pinned for another nine hours.

``I was completely exhausted. I just had to get out of that hole," Thomas said.

He stumbled away and drove home, stopping to hose himself off in his backyard.

``I knew my wife would kill me if I went into the house with all that ash," he said.

Thomas said he returned to ground zero every day for another 2 1/2 weeks to pitch in, then walked away and tried to forget.

``I didn't want to relive what took place that day," he said.

Thomas said it might take a little while before he is ready to see ``World Trade Center," but encouraged others to see it.

The movie's producer, Michael Shamberg, said Thomas and Jimeno had a reunion by telephone last week and have made tentative plans to meet in person.

Shamberg said he has also apologized to Thomas for a historical inaccuracy in the film: Thomas is black. The actor cast to portray him, William Mapother, is white.

Shamberg said the filmmakers didn't realize the mistake until after production had begun. Asked about the error, Thomas gently chided the filmmakers, then declined to discuss it further.

``I don't want to shed any negativity on what they were trying to show," he said.

As for his story, Thomas said he is becoming more comfortable telling it.

``It's been like therapy," he said.

This is him-oh dear, he's gorgeous

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