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Old 04-01-2008, 12:28 AM   #76
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I don't like Condi Rice but I liked what she said about racism because it was the truth. This might shed some light on her experience growing up in America. Its from the Guardian.

Rice, the second African-American and second female in US history to lead the state department, grew up in Alabama at the height of the civil rights movement in America. One of her childhood playmates was killed in an infamous 1963 church bombing committed by white supremacists, whom Rice has called "terrorists".
I guess that someone here believes that in order to love America you have to be a sheep and show blind obedience. The Rev Wright is in the South Side of Chicago and how many white people would even set foot in the South Side or the West Side of Chicago. Instead of showing Rev Wright's speech maybe the media should do the latest story to come out of Chicago's South Side where the Chicago cops are going to school with high school kids because the parents are too afraid to send their children to school due to gang warfare. Then maybe we can understand why Rev Wright said what he said.
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Old 04-01-2008, 12:44 AM   #77
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
i maintain that the essential message of all of them is the same, only there's an anger to Wright that i understand is unappealing to white americans.
Originally posted by maycocksean

That's just what I was going to say.
...
I promise you there won't be many white fans of a black Rush Limbaugh (unless of course they are parroting the same views as Limbaugh)--which is what I gather this Rev. Wright may be like.
Irvine, though, was arguing that the essential message of "all of them," i.e. "Wright, the Obamas, and Condi (and MLK and Powell)" is the same, except for the anger on Wright's part. I'm not sure that makes for the best analogy to Limbaugh (based in part on some of your own past comments about what sort of figure Limbaugh is--e.g., that he's primarily a cynical shock-jock attention-seeker, rather than a 'True Believer' in the values he nominally espouses). Could you clarify?
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Old 04-01-2008, 01:01 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally posted by yolland

Originally posted by maycocksean

That's just what I was going to say.
...
I promise you there won't be many white fans of a black Rush Limbaugh (unless of course they are parroting the same views as Limbaugh)--which is what I gather this Rev. Wright may be like.

Irvine, though, was arguing that the essential message of "all of them," i.e. "Wright, the Obamas, and Condi (and MLK and Powell)" is the same, except for the anger on Wright's part. I'm not sure that makes for the best analogy to Limbaugh (based in part on some of your own past comments about what sort of figure Limbaugh is--e.g., that he's primarily a cynical shock-jock attention-seeker, rather than a 'True Believer' in the values he nominally espouses). Could you clarify?
[/QUOTE]

No, you're right---the analogy wasn't particularly apt.

I guess I was leading off from what Irvine said to make another point, which is that many whites are often impatient with/annoyed by/put-off by black grievances when they are expressed angrily. I then took a polarizing, attention-seeking figure like Limbaugh and said that a similar person who was black would be excoriated even more than Limbaugh is (by those of us of a more liberal persuasion) by whites.

I guess I'm trying to say that a black man in America isn't "allowed" to be pissed off in quite the same way as a white man could.

And Obama, knows this by the way--it's one reason why he's doing as well as he is among white voters, IMO.
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Old 04-01-2008, 01:37 AM   #79
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[q]I guess I'm trying to say that a black man in America isn't "allowed" to be pissed off in quite the same way as a white man could.[/q]



and some would say that this is a racist statement.

do you agree?
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Old 04-01-2008, 03:02 AM   #80
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Originally posted by Irvine511
[q]I guess I'm trying to say that a black man in America isn't "allowed" to be pissed off in quite the same way as a white man could.[/q]



and some would say that this is a racist statement.

do you agree?
I see it more as a statement about racism in our country.

Yeah, I agree that some would view that as a racist statement though I'm not sure entirely how it could be construed as such. It's essentially a statement that racism exists in America and this one manifestation of it.

I know some people don't want to hear that, but that's the reality.
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Old 04-10-2008, 04:42 PM   #81
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Colin Powell:

[q]"Rev. Wright is also somebody who has made enormous contributions in his community and has turned a lot of lives around," Powell said, "And so, I have to put that in context with these very offensive comments that he made, which I reject out of hand."

Powell added that he does not know Wright and praised Obama's response.

"I think that Sen. Obama handled the issue well . . . he didn't look the other way. He didn't wait for the, for the, you know, for the storm to go over. He went on television, and I thought, gave a very, very thoughtful, direct speech. And he didn't abandon the minister who brought him closer to his faith," Powell told Sawyer.

Powell, who has been mentioned as a possible vice presidential candidate in almost every election since he retired from military service and public life, expressed admiration for Obama.

"It was a good (speech)," Powell said. "I admired him for giving it. And I agreed with much of what he said." [/q]
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Old 04-10-2008, 05:45 PM   #82
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And I agreed with much of what he said."
interesting qualifier
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Old 04-10-2008, 05:51 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally posted by maycocksean
And Obama, knows this by the way--it's one reason why he's doing as well as he is among white voters, IMO.

I really try and stay away from the either / or way of thinking

but this does sound much like the

bargainer or challenger concept that is out there
and has been used in discussing Obama

are you familiar with the bargainer or challenger concept?
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Old 04-11-2008, 03:22 AM   #84
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Re: ungrateful Condi vents at USA: you've got a "birth defect"

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
[q]Rice hits U.S. 'birth defect'

"Black Americans were a founding population," she said. "Africans and Europeans came here and founded this country together — Europeans by choice and Africans in chains. That's not a very pretty reality of our founding."

"A founding population"

Yes and the 'elephant in the room' is that probably close to 1/2 of all, if not 2/3 of European Americans who have been in the U.S. for 4 or 5 generations have Native American Blood prominently in their genealogy.

A group that was subject to essential genocide. Also, many Southern Euros or 'whites' have black Ancestry from the same period. Depending on who and where they came from obviously. If your 3rd, 4th, 5th generations are from the South, then there is a great chance. You'd be astonished at how great a chance.

Nothing excuses anything.
Point is, we are all one and the same.....not that far back.

You have 4 grandparents.
You also have 16 great great grandparents.
I'm 33 years old, my great great grandparents were born rougly a decade before the Civil War. That's 16 chances. That's where most of you are as well. It's amazing, I emplore you to check it out.

race mixing, between Whites and Indians, between Whites and blacks (in the South especially) and between Blacks and Indians was incredible.

You'd fall over if you realized. AND THAT's only in America.

To come full circle, I think race is abhorantly overated, with any perspective.
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Old 04-11-2008, 04:25 AM   #85
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I'd encourage anyone to check out the program on PBS, African American Lives. There are parts 1 and 2.
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/aalives/about.html

Basically, they trace famous black folks lineage.
I found both of them fascinating.
Henry Louis Gates runs the show.

Yeah, you might think it's boring.....but it doesn't beat Fattest Celebrity Ass or Lucky Rock Star Whore!! Give us all a break.

Good stuff y'all, check it out when you can. No joke.
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