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Old 03-31-2008, 04:15 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
Don't need to, prove me wrong if you wish.

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If you choose to hide behind this kind of "logic" so be it, but I'll choose to live in the real world.
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Old 03-31-2008, 04:18 PM   #47
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Nice avatar
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Old 03-31-2008, 05:14 PM   #48
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Originally posted by diamond
Without the help of those Republicans who in my view represent the core principles of Republicanism today ie civil rights for all regardless of color-it wouldn't have passed, was my point.
Do you usually try to get a point across by lying and being deceitful?

Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
and I know that more Republicans than Democrats in that time period supported the Civil Rights Movement and were it not for Republicans it would not have passed -much to the chagrin and ignorance of the majority of the posters here.
You've been proven wrong on the first part. The northern Republicans certainly helped, but in both the north and south Democrats had a higher percentage voting for it.
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Old 03-31-2008, 07:07 PM   #49
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For either national party to suggest that it was somehow the driving force behind the Civil Rights Movement's accomplishments would be laughable--primary credit goes to the thousands of "ordinary" citizens, the overwhelming majority of them African-American, who spent more than a decade risking their lives mounting sit-ins, boycotts, marches and voter registration drives to call attention to injustices and galvanize public awareness. Washington had had decades' worth of opportunities, under variously affiliated administrations and Congresses, to act decisively to address de jure racial discrimination in the South and de facto racial discrimination in the North, had that actually been considered a "core principles" priority, which it wasn't.
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Old 03-31-2008, 07:12 PM   #50
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Originally posted by yolland
For either national party to suggest that it was somehow the driving force behind the Civil Rights Movement's accomplishments would be laughable--primary credit goes to the thousands of "ordinary" citizens, the overwhelming majority of them African-American, who spent more than a decade risking their lives mounting sit-ins, boycotts, marches and voter registration drives to call attention to injustices and galvanize public awareness. Washington had had decades' worth of opportunities, under variously affiliated administrations and Congresses, to act decisively to address de jure racial discrimination in the South and de facto racial discrimination in the North, had that actually been considered a "core principles" priority, which it wasn't.
Exactly.
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Old 03-31-2008, 07:40 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by yolland
For either national party to suggest that it was somehow the driving force behind the Civil Rights Movement's accomplishments would be laughable--primary credit goes to the thousands of "ordinary" citizens, the overwhelming majority of them African-American, who spent more than a decade risking their lives mounting sit-ins, boycotts, marches and voter registration drives to call attention to injustices and galvanize public awareness. Washington had had decades' worth of opportunities, under variously affiliated administrations and Congresses, to act decisively to address de jure racial discrimination in the South and de facto racial discrimination in the North, had that actually been considered a "core principles" priority, which it wasn't.
If memory serves me correctly, I do believe a Republican President helped end slavery and set the movement for women's rights, civil rights and human rights in motion.

But I could be all wet, as I'm only an unassuming fellow named diamond in a place called vertiference.

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Old 03-31-2008, 07:47 PM   #52
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Yes, Lincoln was all told a great leader. But wouldn't we all love to cite some universally admired figure and be able to claim them as the epitome of what our party/country/religion/etc. "really" stands for. Unfortunately, historical reality is a lot messier than that.
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Old 03-31-2008, 07:49 PM   #53
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Originally posted by Irvine511
everyone does realize that this thread is really about spin?

that Wright, the Obamas, and Condi (and MLK and Powell) are all talking about the same thing, the only thing that differs is presentation. they're all saying that black people in the US have been screwed over since they got here, and it continues to this day, and simply because they are all immensely successful doesn't mean that there isn't racism, that they themselves didn't have to overcome obstacles that white people don't face, and that America has to deal with it's past.
I beg to differ.

Wrigh's comments were more than spin and more than about racism. There is a huge distortion in his presentation that is troublesome.

It has nothing to do with the packaging.

Obama and Rice were dead on in their presentation. I can respect them for it.

Wright's approach leads and stokes the fires of racism and in my opinion puts us further back from common ground.
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Old 03-31-2008, 07:50 PM   #54
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Regardless, our country needs to tip our hat to Lincoln, the same way Bongo tips his hat to GW, wouldn't you say-at the very least.

Lincoln could of done nothing.

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Old 03-31-2008, 09:36 PM   #55
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Does anyone in this country not tip their hat to Lincoln for his role in ending slavery?
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Old 03-31-2008, 09:43 PM   #56
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Originally posted by Diemen
Does anyone in this country not tip their hat to Lincoln for his role in ending slavery?
Most do, however some choose to find fault with him by attempting to question his "real motives" thereby making me question their character or motives.

Then you have the crowd who claims Lincoln was probably gay based on a few letters being taken out of context.

Tell you what diemen 150 years from now a lot ppl could lay claim that I was a gay american based on some of my more colorful posts being taken out of context here on Interland.

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Old 03-31-2008, 09:52 PM   #57
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Why does it matter what Lincoln's sexual orientation was? At worst, attempts based on scant evidence to 'claim' or 'reclaim' some historical figure for some particular sexual orientation category are silly. At worst. People who assume such attempts to be 'smears' reveal more about themselves than the people they're criticizing.

What's your evidence that "most" find fault with Lincoln by questioning his "real motives"?
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Old 03-31-2008, 09:58 PM   #58
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Well, you certainly do seem to have a thing for Irvine...

As to your Lincoln statement, no one in this thread is not tipping their hat to Lincoln, yet you made that statement as if it was needed. Which isn't that significant, yeah, but your laughable tie-in with Bush is just plain lazy and intellectually dishonest. The vast majority of people have given and do give credit to Lincoln where credit is due. It's not as if there's a vast segment of the population that doesn't admit he did a good thing there.

And this is before even bringing up the differences in style, substance, character, integrity, vision, and capability between the two. What they do share is that they are both Republican presidents, that's about as much similarity as they have. And even in that similarity, the Republican party of Lincoln's time and the Republican party of today are vastly different things.
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Old 03-31-2008, 09:59 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally posted by yolland


What's your evidence that "most" find fault with Lincoln by questioning his "real motives"?
I hear racists claim today that Lincoln really didn't want to free the slaves etc and he had ulterior motives yadie, yadie I usually tone out and walk away.

I also do this when some morons say Clinton shouldn't had helped out Bosnia because they were mostly Muslim and Clinton had ulterior motives blah blah, I walk from those that spout this too.

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Old 03-31-2008, 10:00 PM   #60
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What's your evidence that "most" find fault with Lincoln by questioning his "real motives"?
To be fair to diamond, he did say "some" and not most.
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