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Old 06-04-2005, 11:37 PM   #16
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Originally posted by Sevikins
Can it exist though? I mean, parents should always love their children, or else they wouldn't think to have them... but then again, accidents can happen which then in any case you should love them because you helped create them.

But can it exist though? If that child, even if you were careful and planned to have this child, and rear it giving it everything in the world, making sure that they have a great life-- and when they grow up, just go out, drink and just sleep around. Should you then love them? Even if they spit and curse at you calling you every name in the book (or blaming you for everything that went wrong in their lives)?

I mean I don't have children, I'm leaning towards having one someday (in quite a while as I'm only going to turn 20 ) but I've seen that senario in which the mother just gets abused by her good for nothing daughter and still loves her (by giving her food and letting her stay the night at the house whenever she decides to drop in to leech).

So I don't know, when I look at her senario, I can't help but be extremely angry. Why should the mother still love this when she doesn't really have to? I mean, when she turned 18 and ran out that door promising never to return, if I was the mother, I'd wipe my hands of her. She's caused enough trouble already... no need to die by heart attack because of worrying about her.

But then again, that's what unconditional love is all about right? To love even though the other abuse you either mentally, verbally, or even physically. IMO, it just isn't right. I don't want to love someone who won't love me back. It's just my opinion though.

I hope I wasn't too long, and I hope I made a bit of sense.
There will be people who don't like this. You may not like this very much. But a daughter who treats who mother like that has probably developed that attitude because mom has let her get away with it.

By the way, quietly accepting abuse is not proof of unconditional love. It can be a sign of intimidation, fear, or lack of coping skills (not knowing how to fix the problem).

A more strong willed or knowledgable parent, or one who seeks help or counselling, may be able to remedy such a situation.

But you do not have to accept abuse to prove your love to someone. Trust me. You don't.

Why should a mother still love a child who treats her so badly? Because that's human nature. And it's in us, and as strong as it is, to keep us from abandonning a child who has just flushed his shoe down the toilet, neccessitating $900 worth of home repairs. It's as strong as it is to try and make sure that our parents stick by us, and care for us long enough for us to grow up. And it is not something that can be switched off just because the kid has turned eighteen.

On the topic of uncondtional love between parent and child, the mothers of serial killers frequently admit that they still love their murderous children. The presence of love does not mean that you love that person's every action.
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Old 06-04-2005, 11:57 PM   #17
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I love my Mum more than anyone else in the world, but I don't know if I can call it "unconditional" when it's never really been tested and I feel 100% secure in her unconditional love for me.
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Old 06-04-2005, 11:59 PM   #18
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Excellent point. We don't know until it has been tested.
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Old 06-05-2005, 12:07 AM   #19
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What's the test, though? How do you test unconditional love?

And what if you test it, and it turns out to be less than unconditional?
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Old 06-05-2005, 12:09 AM   #20
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What if it's been tested and you still love the person? Does that mean it's unconditional, or that you just haven't reached "breaking point"? How can you ever know?
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Old 06-05-2005, 12:20 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by echo0001
What's the test, though? How do you test unconditional love?

And what if you test it, and it turns out to be less than unconditional?
Don't mean you deliberately test it? I mean if the relationship is betrayed or the other person stops loving you or exhibits traits not desireable to you, does the unconditional love remain?

And what if it turns out to be less than unconditional, then it is less than unconditional, that's all. Most of our relationships are less than unconditional and function well enough.

VertigoGal, you're right. I guess you can never know. But surmise.
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Old 06-05-2005, 12:26 AM   #22
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Originally posted by BonosSaint


Don't mean you deliberately test it? I mean if the relationship is betrayed or the other person stops loving you or exhibits traits not desireable to you, does the unconditional love remain?

And what if it turns out to be less than unconditional, then it is less than unconditional, that's all. Most of our relationships are less than unconditional and function well enough.

VertigoGal, you're right. I guess you can never know. But surmise.
I think you'd have to be pretty stupid to deliberately attempt to test what is generally expected to be unconditional love, e.g., parental love.

I guess you're previous comment made me think, would anybody deliberately test their parents' love?
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Old 06-05-2005, 12:31 AM   #23
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echo, I was just responding to a post where Saracene was talking about her love for her mother and I think implied it has been a positive relationship, so she does not know whether it can be called unconditional because nothing has happened to challenge it. I thought that was an interesting observation.
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Old 06-05-2005, 10:27 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by echo0001


There will be people who don't like this. You may not like this very much. But a daughter who treats who mother like that has probably developed that attitude because mom has let her get away with it.


I agree, but then her mother only lets her get away with it is because she always runs off to the father, who then yells and beats the mother for yelling at the daughter. But even then, she's seen how her daughter treats her, should she still try to love her? I mean, a person can only love so much before getting fed up from being treated like dirt.

Quote:
By the way, quietly accepting abuse is not proof of unconditional love. It can be a sign of intimidation, fear, or lack of coping skills (not knowing how to fix the problem).


Totally agreed... I just wished that the mother wouldn't be like that. I wouldn't want to see my mother like that.

Quote:
Why should a mother still love a child who treats her so badly? Because that's human nature. And it's in us, and as strong as it is, to keep us from abandonning a child who has just flushed his shoe down the toilet, neccessitating $900 worth of home repairs. It's as strong as it is to try and make sure that our parents stick by us, and care for us long enough for us to grow up. And it is not something that can be switched off just because the kid has turned eighteen.


True, but it's not fair is it? And of course, when they're little and they do what they do (ie: throw shoes into the toilet) of course, you can't really blame them for doing what they do, it's human nature and they were just curious and as much as we hate it, you just have to then teach them to not do that again. But when you're at a certain age, aren't you expected to know certain things and have certain guidelines to live your life? Maybe it's how I was raised up. It just breaks my heart to see these things at times.

I don't know, maybe it's just me but there has to be a point in where a parents just says "enough is enough." To tell the truth, I wouldn't want to be the parent that frequently has to bail out their kids from jail, or try to straighten them out and to see those efforts fail because the kids don't want to keep on the straight and narrow. Maybe that makes me hateful and unable to love, or maybe I just haven't really explained myself clearly. I have a problem with that.
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Old 06-08-2005, 02:30 AM   #25
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This is such an interesting topic. I think whether you think 'unconditional love" exists or not depends on how you define unconditional love.

Personally, there are people in my life who I will love no matter what they do. But this doesn't mean that I will like/accept everything they do. It doesn't mean that I will put up with being treated badly by them. And it doesn't mean I will do everything they want me to do.

If someone I loved committed a crime that I find unforgiveable, I will probably still love that person. Because I'll never forget the good things they've done, the good times we've had etc.

Is this unconditional love? I find it hard to say! I guess it is in a sense - to me, anyway.

I think it's probably the same way for parents who have kids that don't treat them as they should. The mother whose daughter treats her badly might remember the way the daughter, when she was 5, made her a cup of tea when she wasn't feeling well, or something like that. And that kind of thing would probably make her love the kid even if she is being a brat.
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Old 06-08-2005, 08:59 PM   #26
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Old 06-08-2005, 09:07 PM   #27
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Yeah Sevikins, there's a place where some people say 'Enough'.

They may be done enduring the behavior but I don't think they have gone from loving to hating their children. It's just not that easy to turn off your feelings for your family.

And you're right, it doesn't seem fair. All the more reason to call Nature a Mother....
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