U.S. Forces Kill Seven Iraqi Women, Kids - Page 3 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-01-2003, 04:13 PM   #31
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
hiphop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: in the jungle
Posts: 7,410
Local Time: 07:14 AM
I´m not blaming the US Army. I´m blaming Saddam and Bush. The soldiers wouldn´t have been there if the US administration wouldn´t have enforced attacking Iraq.
__________________

__________________
hiphop is offline  
Old 04-02-2003, 07:06 AM   #32
New Yorker
 
Scarletwine's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Outside it's Amerika
Posts: 2,746
Local Time: 12:14 AM
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/

Family deaths at checkpoint fuel fury and mistrust
From Tim Reid in Washington

THE killing of up to ten Iraqi women and children by US troops at a checkpoint fuelled mutual mistrust between coalition forces and civilians yesterday as the official US version of events was contradicted by a journalist who witnessed the incident.
The deaths, at about 4.30pm on Monday near the central town of Najaf, came after American ground troops were ordered by Marine and army commanders to employ new, overtly aggressive tactics towards civilian Iraqi vehicles in response to a suicide car bomber who killed four US soldiers at a checkpoint on Saturday.

They dealt a terrible blow to US hopes of winning the hearts and minds of Iraqi civilians. The image of an increasingly suspicious and ruthless invading force operating on a hair trigger was reinforced yesterday when an unarmed driver speeding towards a military roadblock near the southern town of al-Shatrah was shot dead.

In Kuwait US soldiers shot and wounded the driver of a car that burst past a checkpoint near the Iraqi border. Kuwait said that the man had been an army captain running late for work.

According to US Central Command, based in Doha, Qatar, soldiers from the Army’s 3rd Infantry Division manning a checkpoint on Highway 9, near Najaf, were approached by a “civilian vehicle”. They motioned for the vehicle to stop, but were ignored. The soldiers fired warning shots, which were also ignored, so shots were fired into the vehicle’s engine. It continued moving, so “as a last resort, soldiers fired into the passenger compartment of the vehicle”. Seven occupants were killed, two were injured and four were unharmed, the statement said.

“In light of recent terrorist attacks by the Iraqi regime, the soldiers exercised considerable restraint to avoid unnecessary loss of life,” the statement concluded.

In a markedly different and detailed version of events, William Branigin, a reporter for The Washington Post embedded with the 3rd Infantry Division, described a blue, four-wheel-drive Toyota that came “barrelling toward” the intersection checkpoint.

Captain Ronny Johnson, who was within earshot of Mr Branigin, radioed one of his forward platoons of M2 Bradley fighting vehicles to alert it to this potential threat.

“Fire a warning shot,” Captain Johnson was reported as saying. Then, “with increasing urgency”, the report continues, “he told the platoon to shoot a 7.62mm machinegun round into its radiator. “Stop (messing) around!” Johnson was heard yelling.

Finally, according to Mr Branigin’s report, he shouted: “Stop him, Red 1, stop him.” About six shots of 25mm canon fire were then heard from one of the Bradley vehicles.

As Captain Johnson peered at the vehicle through his binoculars, Mr Branigin reported, he shouted at the platoon leader: “You just f****** killed a family because you didn’t fire a warning shot!” The report quoted officers as saying that 15 civilians were in the vehicle. Captain Johnson’s company reported that ten of them, including five children who appeared to be under five, were killed.

However, later in his report, Mr Branigin writes that several soldiers “accepted the platoon leader’s explanation to Captain Johnson on the military radio that he had, in fact, fired two warning shots, but that the driver failed to stop”.

A spokesman for The Washington Post said that the newspaper stood by the report. “Mr Branigin heard himself the radio transmission he reported.”

Yesterday, as US Central Command launched an investigation, it was clear that any inquiry will do nothing to quell Arab anger.

In Bahrain a front page headline of the Akhbar al-Khaleej newspaper read: “Invaders commit massacre in al-Amin area . . . 26 martyred, including 11 children.” In Cairo a banner headline in the semi-official al-Gomhuria said: “The invading force commits three ugly massacres in Baghdad and Najaf.”

The suicide bombing on Saturday has had a profound effect. Before the incident, Iraqi civilians drove through checkpoints routinely, chatting to US troops, often being handed sweets and rations.

On Monday, before the deaths at Najaf, US Marine Command issued new guidelines to troops to assume the worst and employ tougher tactics. Central Command emphasised that no new rules of engagement had been issued, but “procedures might be varied”.

Now, drivers and passengers are being ordered out of vehicles with their hands raised. Any vehicle blocking traffic will be rolled over.

Civilians approaching checkpoints with their hands in their pockets will be shot if they fail to heed a warning. Barriers are being used to create chicanes at checkpoints.

Pentagon officials conceded yesterday that the new tactics risk alienating civilians further and killing even more of them. There is also a recognition that the suicide bombing has, for the Arab world, turned the war from a secular conflict into a holy war that resonates with the Palestinian cause. The new checkpoint procedures, modelled on Israeli tactics in the West Bank, will reinforce that image.

“Nothing will work better than the threat of suicide bombers to alienate the US and British forces from the local Iraqi population,” Yossi Alpher, an Israeli analyst, said. “They will have no alternative but to view everyone above 14, every vehicle, even every animal such as donkeys, as a potential suicide bomb.”
__________________

__________________
Scarletwine is offline  
Old 04-02-2003, 08:36 AM   #33
New Yorker
 
sharky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,637
Local Time: 12:14 AM
So according to the Post story, he bases the story on radio transmissions but saw the car "barreling toward" the intersection. So did he see the actually shooting if he saw the car going toward the checkpoint? If he didn't see the shooting is he basing the whole story on a radio transmission? And if there were "about six shots" how come ten people are dead? I'm sure this journalist has every intention of being accurate but there are holes in this story.

As for the tires, have you seen all those stupid car chase tv shows? It doesn't matter if the tires are gone, you can still drive. And if your intent is to blow up soldiers, you will drive for that purpose with or without tires.
__________________
sharky is offline  
Old 04-02-2003, 10:40 AM   #34
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
hiphop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: in the jungle
Posts: 7,410
Local Time: 07:14 AM
What if you were in this bus, sharky? Would you like a bullet in your head, just for the assumption you could be a suicide bomber? Is it right for U.S. soldiers to take this right?

And what if I was one of the soldiers? Would I take the right?
__________________
hiphop is offline  
Old 04-02-2003, 12:27 PM   #35
Refugee
 
Klaus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: on a one of these small green spots at that blue planet at the end of the milky way
Posts: 2,432
Local Time: 06:14 AM
sharky: I wasn't there so i can't answer most of your questions, but in a overcrowded car i assure you that you can kill 10 people with 6 bullets - completely without jfk-like "magic bullets"

Somewhere i heared that the US military will use arabic signs to tell them to stop, if that's true they didn't use them yet and expect that the average Iraqi citizen can read english well. If you remember the fact that more than the half of all schools were destroyed in Iraq war 1 and even pencils were not allowed to be imported into iraq because they are "dual use"...

Anyway, we can only speculate because most of the crimes which will hapen will never be clarified.

Klaus
__________________
Klaus is offline  
Old 04-03-2003, 08:35 AM   #36
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
sulawesigirl4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Virginia
Posts: 7,416
Local Time: 12:14 AM
Just thot I would mention this paragraph from an editorial discussing this tragedy.

For soldiers, trained in the language and practice of war, a checkpoint is a place where those who approach with innocent intent know they must stop; only those with malign intent will ignore them. For those same civilians, however, unversed in combat, fleeing for their lives and doubtless terrified, a foreign military checkpoint is an unwelcome and alien obstacle. Misunderstandings are inevitable and, in conditions of war, so are fatalities.
__________________
"I can't change the world, but I can change the world in me." - Bono

sulawesigirl4 is offline  
Old 04-04-2003, 09:06 PM   #37
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 10:14 PM
Normal

Quote:
Originally posted by sulawesigirl4


with malign intent will ignore them. (correct)




For those same civilians, however, unversed in combat, fleeing for their lives and doubtless terrified, a foreign military checkpoint is an unwelcome and alien obstacle. Misunderstandings are inevitable and, in conditions of war, so are fatalities..(not correct).
:


In a more recent and similar incident, how can you NOW blame these soilders?

OPERATION: IRAQI FREEDOM
Suicide bombers'
last words on TV
'I swear to Allah to sacrifice myself in jihad against infidel Americans'

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: April 4, 2003
5:00 p.m. Eastern




Two Iraqi women who killed five people, including three U.S. soldiers, in a suicide bomb attack near Baghdad swore their allegiance to Allah in a videotape broadcast today on Al-Jazeera television, Reuters reported.

"I swear to Allah to sacrifice myself in jihad [holy war] against infidel Americans, British and Israelis to defend my country's beloved soil," said one of the women as she held a rifle and placed her other hand on the Muslim holy book Quran.

Another woman recited verses from the Quran as she stood in front of an Iraqi flag, vowing, "I swear to Allah ... that I will defend Iraq and take revenge from the people's enemies, the Americans, imperialists, Zionists, reactionaries and Arab defeatists."

"You will be proud of your sisters; history will be proud of them," she said, without referring to the mission they planned to carry out.

Iraqi media said the two women carried out the suicide bombing last night at a checkpoint northwest of Baghdad, Al-Jazeera reported.

U.S. Central Command said today that three soldiers, a pregnant woman and the driver were killed in an attack about 11 miles southwest of the Haditha Dam, northwest of Baghdad and about 80 miles east of the Syrian border.

"These are not military actions. These are terrorist actions," said Brig. Gen. Vincent Brooks, Central Command deputy director of operations.

"A pregnant female stepped out of the vehicle and began screaming in fear," a Central Command statement said. "At this point the civilian vehicle exploded, killing three coalition force members who were approaching the vehicle and wounding two others."

If confirmed, it would be the second suicide attack since the war began. Last Saturday, four U.S. soldiers died in a car bomb at a checkpoint near Najaf in central Iraq. As many as 3,000 Arab volunteers for suicide missions against U.S.-led forces have arrived in the country in recent weeks, Iraqi officials claim


Truth reveals itself at the end of the day...


DB9
__________________
diamond is offline  
Old 04-04-2003, 09:17 PM   #38
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
Michael Griffiths's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Playa Del Carmen, Mexico
Posts: 3,925
Local Time: 05:14 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
:Truth reveals itself at the end of the day...

DB9
What do mean by that? No one disputed this story, did they? This is not the story that we were discussing originally, so I don't know what you mean. The other incident, involving the killing of 7 women and some children, has not been shown to be a suicide bombing, has it? Did I miss something?
__________________
Michael Griffiths is offline  
Old 04-04-2003, 09:42 PM   #39
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 10:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Michael Griffiths

What do mean by that? No one disputed this story, did they? This is not the story that we were discussing originally, so I don't know what you mean. The other incident, involving the killing of 7 women and some children, has not been shown to be a suicide bombing, has it? Did I miss something?
(edited my preceding post....)


Other than the children in the van, I do not think these ppl were in the orig story were quite the "hapless victims"

DB9
__________________
diamond is offline  
Old 04-05-2003, 12:05 AM   #40
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
Michael Griffiths's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Playa Del Carmen, Mexico
Posts: 3,925
Local Time: 05:14 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by diamond


(edited my preceding post....)


Other than the children in the van, I do not think these ppl were in the orig story were quite the "hapless victims"

DB9
Ah, another case of pure speculation then. Thanks for clarifying.
__________________
Michael Griffiths is offline  
Old 04-05-2003, 01:09 AM   #41
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
80sU2isBest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,970
Local Time: 12:14 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Michael Griffiths

Ah, another case of pure speculation then. Thanks for clarifying.
Pure speculation? Not exactly. A popular Shiite cleric said he actually saw the people forced into the car, and the driver was under duress - his family had been threatened if he did not commit the act.
__________________
80sU2isBest is offline  
Old 04-05-2003, 06:30 AM   #42
Refugee
 
Klaus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: on a one of these small green spots at that blue planet at the end of the milky way
Posts: 2,432
Local Time: 06:14 AM
diamond:

Saddam tries to force the US to start a "dirty war" with lots of "colateral damage" it's his only chance to survive.

But.. as they didn't find explosives in the first vehicle and even the US military said that they have done mistakes shows that they did something wrong when they killed seven iraqi women and kids.
You can't justify that because there are sucide bombers. back to one of my first posts in this thread:

"I'm affraid the US troops aren't trained for situations like these.
This is not a fault of the soldiers, they don't decide themself how they get prepared for a guerillia war like this one.

Klaus
__________________
Klaus is offline  
Old 04-05-2003, 11:50 AM   #43
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 12:14 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest

Pure speculation? Not exactly. A popular Shiite cleric said he actually saw the people forced into the car, and the driver was under duress - his family had been threatened if he did not commit the act.
I too saw this.
__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 04-05-2003, 12:05 PM   #44
Refugee
 
Klaus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: on a one of these small green spots at that blue planet at the end of the milky way
Posts: 2,432
Local Time: 06:14 AM
Dreadsox:
you are currently in Iraq?
__________________
Klaus is offline  
Old 04-05-2003, 12:07 PM   #45
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 12:14 AM
Umm..no....I was refering to the report of the Cleric who says the people were forced into the van.

Sorry.
__________________

__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com