U.S. Forces Kill Seven Iraqi Women, Kids - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-01-2003, 11:48 AM   #16
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
80sU2isBest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,970
Local Time: 07:59 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Basstrap
80's...what is your point?

I said it is not good...are you opposing that statement? I'm confused
Nope, I think it's horribly tragic. Maybe I'm the confused one, but it seems to me that by posting the following statement,

"they need to put some more effort into distinquishing b/w civilians and noncivilians"

You seem to agree with what the officer supposedly said, that it was the soldiers' fault. If you weren't saying that, I apologize.

However, I've gotta ask - did you hear this statement directly, or did a friend tell you about it? The reason I ask is because (1) I didn't hear about it, and I read several sources (Fox News, CNN, Newsmax, Drudge, Debka)several times a day. (2) Also, it doesn't seem like a soldier would say something like that even if he felt that way, based on public opinion. Could you imagine the headlines?

"Soldier Admits Fault In Killing Civilians"

I've never been in the military, but when I worked for the police department, if we were at the scene of a crime, no one was allowed to discuss teh crime with the press except the guy in command. I would definitely think it would be that way with the military, but maybe I'm wrong. Anyways, I just don't think he would say that. I'm not saying you're lying, I just think you might be misinformed.
__________________

__________________
80sU2isBest is offline  
Old 04-01-2003, 11:53 AM   #17
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
80sU2isBest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,970
Local Time: 07:59 AM
Anitram, I see your point, but as it stands now, there was nothing else they could've done. The soldiers were trying to protect their own. It is indeed a tragedy, but I do have to wonder if the reason the van didn't stop was because it was under the control of a woman who did indeed plan to be a "martyr" and take out some US troops. For all we know, it could have been the driver acting alone, and the rest were unsuspecting passengers.
__________________

__________________
80sU2isBest is offline  
Old 04-01-2003, 12:53 PM   #18
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
hiphop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: in the jungle
Posts: 7,410
Local Time: 02:59 PM
A Gruesome Scene on Highway 9
10 Dead After Vehicle Shelled at Checkpoint


By William Branigin
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, April 1, 2003


NEAR KARBALA, Iraq, March 31 -- As an unidentified four-wheel-drive vehicle came barreling toward an intersection held by troops of the Army's 3rd Infantry Division, Capt. Ronny Johnson grew increasingly alarmed. From his position at the intersection, he was heard radioing to one of his forward platoons of M2 Bradley Fighting Vehicles to alert it to what he described as a potential threat.

"Fire a warning shot," he ordered as the vehicle kept coming. Then, with increasing urgency, he told the platoon to shoot a 7.62mm machine-gun round into its radiator. "Stop [messing] around!" Johnson yelled into the company radio network when he still saw no action being taken. Finally, he shouted at the top of his voice, "Stop him, Red 1, stop him!"

That order was immediately followed by the loud reports of 25mm cannon fire from one or more of the platoon's Bradleys. About half a dozen shots were heard in all.

"Cease fire!" Johnson yelled over the radio. Then, as he peered into his binoculars from the intersection on Highway 9, he roared at the platoon leader, "You just [expletive] killed a family because you didn't fire a warning shot soon enough!"

So it was that on a warm, hazy day in central Iraq, the fog of war descended on Bravo Company.

Fifteen Iraqi civilians were packed inside the Toyota, officers said, along with as many of their possessions as the jammed vehicle could hold. Ten of them, including five children who appeared to be under 5 years old, were killed on the spot when the high-explosive rounds slammed into their target, Johnson's company reported. Of the five others, one man was so severely injured that medics said he was not expected to live.

"It was the most horrible thing I've ever seen, and I hope I never see it again," Sgt. Mario Manzano, 26, an Army medic with Bravo Company of the division's 3rd Battalion, 15th Infantry Regiment, said later in an interview. He said one of the wounded women sat in the vehicle holding the mangled bodies of two of her children. "She didn't want to get out of the car," he said.

The tragedy cast a pall over the company as it sat in positions it had occupied Sunday on this key stretch of Highway 9 at the intersection of a road leading to the town of Hilla, about 14 miles to the east, near the Euphrates River. The Toyota was coming from that direction when it was fired on.

Dealing with the gruesome scene was a new experience for many of the U.S. soldiers deployed here, and they debated how the tragedy could have been avoided. Several said they accepted the platoon leader's explanation to Johnson on the military radio that he had, in fact, fired two warning shots, but that the driver failed to stop. And everybody was edgy, they realized, since four U.S. soldiers were blown up by a suicide bomber Saturday at a checkpoint much like theirs, only 20 miles to the south.

On a day of sporadic fighting on the roads and in the farms and wooded areas around the intersection, the soldiers of Bravo Company had their own reasons to be edgy. The Bradley of the 3rd Battalion's operations officer, Maj. Roger Shuck, was fired on with a rocket-propelled grenade a couple of miles south of Karbala. No one in the vehicle was seriously injured, but Shuck had difficulty breathing afterward and had to be treated with oxygen, medics said.

That happened after a column of M1 Abrams tanks headed north to Karbala in the early afternoon and returned a couple of hours later. Throughout the day, Iraqis lobbed periodic mortar volleys at the U.S. troops, and Iraqi militiamen and soldiers tried to penetrate the U.S. lines. Later, U.S. multiple-launcher vehicles fired rockets to try to take out the mortar batteries as AH-64 Apache helicopters swooped low over the arid terrain in search of other enemy gun emplacements.

It was in the late afternoon, after this day defending their positions, that the men of Bravo Company saw the blue Toyota coming down the road and reacted. After the shooting, U.S. medics evacuated survivors to U.S. lines south of here. One woman escaped without a scratch. Another, who had superficial head wounds, was flown by helicopter to a field hospital when it was learned she was pregnant.

Johnson said afterward that he initially suspected the driver might have been a suicide bomber, because he did not behave like others who approached the intersection.

"All the other vehicles stopped and turned around when they saw us," he said. "But this one kept on coming." Two days earlier, four 3rd Infantry Division soldiers were killed when a suicide bomber detonated explosives in his car at a checkpoint.

Lt. Col. Stephen Twitty, the 3rd Battalion commander, gave permission for three of the survivors to return to the vehicle and recover the bodies of their loved ones. Medics gave the group 10 body bags. U.S. officials offered an unspecified amount of money to compensate them.

"They wanted to bury them before the dogs got to them," said Cpl. Brian Truenow, 28, of Townsend, Mass.

[In Washington, the Pentagon issued a statement saying the vehicle was fired on after the driver ignored shouted orders and warning shots. The shooting, it said, is under investigation. According to the Pentagon account, the vehicle was a van carrying 13 women and children. Seven were killed, two were injured and four were unharmed, it said, without mentioning any men.]

To try to prevent a recurrence, Johnson ordered that signs be posted in Arabic to warn people to stop well short of the Bradleys guarding the eastern approach to the intersection. Before they could be erected, 10 people carrying white flags walked down the same road. They were seven children, an old man, a woman and a boy in his teens.

"Tell them to go away," Johnson ordered. But he reconsidered when told that the family said their house had been blown up and that they were trying to reach the home of relatives in a safer area.

"They look like they pose no threat at this time," one of the Bradley platoons radioed.

Johnson, a former Army Ranger who parachuted into Panama in 1989, fought in the 1991 Persian Gulf War and rose through the ranks, relented. He ordered his troops to tell the old man that the group could walk around the Bradleys.


© 2003 The Washington Post Company
__________________
hiphop is offline  
Old 04-01-2003, 01:08 PM   #19
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
hiphop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: in the jungle
Posts: 7,410
Local Time: 02:59 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
Why? Why? Why?????

Why didn't they stop?????

Who? The bus or the soldiers firing bullets at it?
__________________
hiphop is offline  
Old 04-01-2003, 01:10 PM   #20
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
Michael Griffiths's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Playa Del Carmen, Mexico
Posts: 3,925
Local Time: 12:59 PM
God, that is so tragic. I know it's war, but I can't help being torn up about it. I'll leave my opinions out of it.
__________________
Michael Griffiths is offline  
Old 04-01-2003, 01:13 PM   #21
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
Michael Griffiths's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Playa Del Carmen, Mexico
Posts: 3,925
Local Time: 12:59 PM
Just to note: the reason I'm leaving my opinions out of it is for no other reason other than my opinions are irrelevent in relation to something like this. It speaks for itself.
__________________
Michael Griffiths is offline  
Old 04-01-2003, 01:17 PM   #22
Refugee
 
Klaus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: on a one of these small green spots at that blue planet at the end of the milky way
Posts: 2,432
Local Time: 01:59 PM

One of the worst stories i've read so far

Klaus
__________________
Klaus is offline  
Old 04-01-2003, 01:44 PM   #23
New Yorker
 
sharky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,637
Local Time: 07:59 AM
the army is disputing the Washington Post story. don't know if that sways anyone's opinion but they are saying that's not how it happened.
__________________
sharky is offline  
Old 04-01-2003, 01:46 PM   #24
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
hiphop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: in the jungle
Posts: 7,410
Local Time: 02:59 PM
Oh, the army! The most unbiased source on planet earth.

Not saying that I read the Post, normally...
__________________
hiphop is offline  
Old 04-01-2003, 02:20 PM   #25
The Fly
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Stow, MA, USA
Posts: 256
Local Time: 12:59 PM
I still can't figure out why the tires weren't taken out before any innocent civilians had to be killed..
My sincere prayers go out to the victims of this war
__________________
Amna is offline  
Old 04-01-2003, 02:29 PM   #26
Refugee
 
Klaus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: on a one of these small green spots at that blue planet at the end of the milky way
Posts: 2,432
Local Time: 01:59 PM
Amna:
I'm affraid we will never know for sure because there are more important things in war than 7 dead Iraqis

Maybe it's because Military isn't trained for such police/customs-Likescenarios? So when there was a stress situation the soldiers accidentially acted like they act on a battlefield? But that's pure speculation

Klaus
__________________
Klaus is offline  
Old 04-01-2003, 02:33 PM   #27
New Yorker
 
sharky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,637
Local Time: 07:59 AM
four of their own were killed by a suicide bomber. if you are them you would have reacted the same. as for the reporter, so many things could have happened. The Post is a left-leaning paper, which could be a factor. what he saw may not be the same as what someone else saw. as I've said before, don't rely on one news source for your information. what would you think of this war if all you watched was Fox News?
__________________
sharky is offline  
Old 04-01-2003, 02:49 PM   #28
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
hiphop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: in the jungle
Posts: 7,410
Local Time: 02:59 PM
What if I just dug up the Post because I´ve watched a European news channel which mentioned two or three sources.

If I was them I wouldn´t have reacted the same. I wouldn´t be a soldier in that war, it is as simple as that.

However, you are entitled to your opinion.

Maybe every death is justified, and the Iraqis will thank you for the little collateral women and children damage as soon as they see how great democracy is.
__________________
hiphop is offline  
Old 04-01-2003, 03:42 PM   #29
New Yorker
 
sharky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,637
Local Time: 07:59 AM
there was also a man that was injured in the attack. how do you know he wasn't the one driving the car? how do you know these women weren't already dead? its too early for us to be jumped to conclusions in support or against the soldiers or the driver.
__________________
sharky is offline  
Old 04-01-2003, 04:07 PM   #30
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 07:59 AM
Once again, the tactics of the Iraqi's be it called "terrorism" or "war" have contributed towards causing this incident.

But you can blame the US Army if you chose to, nothing I write will change that. Neither will anything you say change my mind.

All I can say, and I think we all agree, is that this is very sad.
__________________

__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com