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Old 12-05-2007, 10:04 PM   #61
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I don't understand what some gossip rag snarking about how some celebrity looks in a bikini has to do with school lunchrooms serving nutritious meals instead of sodas, candy, and other snacks with little to offer beyond trans fats, corn syrup and salt...? They're not talking about required classes in How To Avoid Getting Fat At All Costs. This is about schools offering genuinely nourishing foods that actually give children some vitamins and minerals, not ultra-low-calorie or crash diet regimens. People with eating disorders aren't driven by fear of "junk foods"--they're driven by fear of calories, period, no matter how nourishing the sources they come from. As a parent, I can't find any sense in insinuations that we're putting our kids at grave risk of developing eating disorders because we focus our meals on whole grains, lean meats, and lots of fruits and vegetables, with chips, pastries, and ice cream only as occasional treats--we do that because we care about their health and their developing habits to help preserve it for a lifetime, not because we give a damn how they're going to look in bathing suits someday. And that is the focus of the proposed legislation in question as well. Lunch is just one meal--it's not going to hurt them if they don't have many opportunities for special treats at that time.

If there's a case for how school cafeterias offering curly fries and Otis Spunkmeyer cookies daily lowers children's risk of developing eating disorders, I'd sure like to hear it. It's not that those conditions aren't cause for serious concern, but just as there are major limits to what schools can realistically do about reducing the incidence of obesity, there are also major limits to what they can do about reducing the incidence of eating disorders. I think if you're looking to what's offered in the school cafeteria as either a promoter or discourager of eating disorders, you're probably looking in the wrong place. It won't dramatically affect rising obesity rates either, but at least for kids who are already getting too much junk food at home it can be one less place to consume it, and for kids whose parents are already offering healthy food at home, it can be one less opportunity to slide into less healthy habits elsewhere.
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Old 12-05-2007, 11:23 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Yeah they are unhealthy, but blaming diet drinks for the obesity problem is
Oh, I agree, the drinks themselves aren't the problem. Sounds like, if this article's got any truth to it, it may be what happens in relation to the drinks that leads to obesity.

Found the link-here it is:

http://health.yahoo.com/experts/nutr...-make-you-fat/

Quote:
Some researchers believe that the problem with diet sodas is this: When people consume diet drinks, they think they're doing something "good" for their body — and then they feel free to splurge on other, high-calorie items.

For example, if you are eating at McDonald's and order a diet soda in place of a regular soda, you may think, "Now I can super-size my meal."
I could see the reasoning there. I know I've certainly seen many people do things like that at fast food restaurants before.

Angela
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Old 12-06-2007, 08:57 AM   #63
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Eating disorders aren't based in intellect and rationality-in fact it's the opposite-and I have known people who had/have them and know all about the other factors involved. Of course offering junk won't lower risk of eating disorders, I wasn't saying that. I was merely saying that telling young girls they have to deprive themselves of treats from an early age can possibly feed into a certain mindset. I'm well aware that eating disorders can develop from a perfectly healthy diet. It's not just a gossip rag, they are one part of a prevailing very warped mindset about the female body. To argue that doesn't exist in a major way in this country makes no sense to me personally. And that mindset is starting to exist in kids too. If one comment about someone's body and weight from another person can initiate the eventual formation of an eating disorder in someone-and it can and does-then connecting any of these larger issues to them really isn't much of a stretch. Of course one comment wouldn't do that in a person who can shrug it off and has other attributes, but this isn't a perfect world and we all have differing sensitivities and proclivities.
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Old 12-06-2007, 10:27 AM   #64
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I've honestly never had a Diet Coke and thought "Hmmmm, now I can eat 5 chocolate bars!" And I don't know anyone else who does that.

But if you're following that logic, then anything in the grocery store that says "low-fat" or "fat free" or whatever else should be banned too since people will grab a low-fat frozen yogurt and follow it up with an XL pizza.
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Old 12-06-2007, 10:52 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally posted by Moonlit_Angel


Ditto.

I did see something in the Yahoo! headlines about diet drinks possibly being unhealthy for you or something like that-I didn't get a chance to read the article, though. But I'll go see if I can find it and post it here.
yes... 41% of people who drink diet soda are obese. what a breakthrough for modern science to discover that fat people drink diet soda.
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Old 12-06-2007, 11:17 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
I've honestly never had a Diet Coke and thought "Hmmmm, now I can eat 5 chocolate bars!" And I don't know anyone else who does that.

But if you're following that logic, then anything in the grocery store that says "low-fat" or "fat free" or whatever else should be banned too since people will grab a low-fat frozen yogurt and follow it up with an XL pizza.
People do it all the time, though. Sometimes it amazes me that people can have that warped of a logic, yet it doesn't in the slightest.

"Yep, drinking a Slim Fast shake alongside my Big Mac will keep off those pounds!"

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Old 12-06-2007, 11:22 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally posted by LarryMullen's_POPAngel

"Yep, drinking a Slim Fast shake alongside my Big Mac will keep off those pounds!"

Yeah, but how many times is that an assumption on our part? I don't eat McD's more than maybe 2-3 times a year. But I'll get a Diet Coke with my order. This isn't because I think I can now eat 10 nuggets without consequence, it's just because I don't happen to like regular Coke. But if you were standing in line behind me, you could very well assume that I'm gorging on fried food because I think the diet drink balances things out.
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Old 12-06-2007, 03:19 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram


Yeah, but how many times is that an assumption on our part? I don't eat McD's more than maybe 2-3 times a year. But I'll get a Diet Coke with my order. This isn't because I think I can now eat 10 nuggets without consequence, it's just because I don't happen to like regular Coke. But if you were standing in line behind me, you could very well assume that I'm gorging on fried food because I think the diet drink balances things out.
I'm famous for getting low carb bread alongside ice cream at the grocery store. I'm sure the cashier silently judges me, but hey, cut those carbs where you can. I actually like this one brand of organic low carb bread, and ice cream is one of my non-negotiable simple pleasures in life.
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Old 12-06-2007, 08:36 PM   #69
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Moderation in all things

I think that is the key

I'm reading this thread while enjoying a real buttered toasted piece of bread (along with Blackberry Jam) and a frosty glass of whole milk.


Enjoy food and your life
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Old 12-06-2007, 09:08 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
Yeah, but how many times is that an assumption on our part? I don't eat McD's more than maybe 2-3 times a year. But I'll get a Diet Coke with my order. This isn't because I think I can now eat 10 nuggets without consequence, it's just because I don't happen to like regular Coke. But if you were standing in line behind me, you could very well assume that I'm gorging on fried food because I think the diet drink balances things out.
You have a good point. You're right, a lot of the time it is assumption-I've been guilty of said assumptions, and I'm glad you pointed that out. But I have also seen people use the logic that has been refrenced above, too. They really think a diet drink with their regular foods is going to help them.

I just posted the link here because I thought it was relevant to the discussion. Whether or not what it states is true, well, that's up for debate. I think the part I quoted is indeed true of some people, but I think there's probably a lot more to it, too-as pointed out, the drinks themselves aren't going to make someone obese.

Angela
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Old 12-06-2007, 10:42 PM   #71
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Saying "moderation in all things" is all well and good so long as behavioral exceptions to that rule remain few and far between; unfortunately, the data clearly show that's not the case.
Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
I was merely saying that telling young girls they have to deprive themselves of treats from an early age can possibly feed into a certain mindset.
But it's not 'deprivation' to make 'treats'--a word which by its very nature suggests something special, exceptional, out of the ordinary--precisely that: foods to be heartily enjoyed occasionally. There's no need for us to project associations of guilt, shame and irrational fears that what's particularly pleasurable is somehow 'immoral' onto that, nor to cast what's 'merely' satisfying and nourishing as sackcloth asceticism or part of some quest for perfection. I apologize if I came across as exasperated before, but as a parent it really drives me up the wall when people first allow their kids to develop the unhealthy eating habits that lead to clinical overweight and obesity, then compound that by doing nothing to address it because "I don't want to hurt his/her self-esteem". Maybe you have to spend lots of time around school-age children and their parents to realize how common that sort of mindset has become, but at any rate, it has. The incidence of anorexia and bulimia combined among children and teenagers is about 2% by most estimates, whereas clinically overweight and obese kids now comprise one-third of all children and teenagers. Perhaps you read about the two major new studies just released yesterday, (further) sounding the alarm about the expected surges in heart disease, high cholesterol, hypertension and diabetes--all at increasingly younger ages--over the next few decades due to the increase in clinical overweight and obesity in our children. This needs to stop, and at the point where fears of kids developing the far, far less common problem of eating disorders as a "result" of adopting healthier eating and exercise practices under parental/medical/school guidance becomes an obstacle to even attempting it, then we're granting those very different conditions way, way too much power over the public health agenda. The kinds of psychological problems underlying eating disorders (and the kinds of environmental factors which aggravate them) have almost nothing to do with whether concerted efforts are made to stock home kitchens and school cafeterias with primarily nutrient-dense foods, and engage children in regular physical activity. If for some sick reason someone's goal were to maximize their kid's chances of developing an eating disorder, sure, there are all kinds of buttons they could push there, but favoring the kinds of meal and snacking choices that help foster a lifetime inclination towards healthy eating habits aren't among them. I don't need to guilt-trip my kids with implicit or explicit lectures on how deep-fried snacks (which we're enjoying daily at the moment since it's Chanukah) are Evil Evil Evil and they'll turn into pathetic, unloveable blimps no one respects or desires if they eat them, in order to get across the point that these aren't foods to consume regularly.
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Old 12-07-2007, 08:15 PM   #72
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Quote:
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ice cream is one of my non-negotiable simple pleasures in life.




especially that delicious garam masala you bought ...
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