U.S.A. -- good or evil? - U2 Feedback

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Old 04-30-2005, 04:29 PM   #1
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U.S.A. -- good or evil?

question:

on balance, since the end of WW2 and the ascention of the United States to the position of most powerful nation on earth (perhaps ever in history), is the world a better place? is the USA, on balance, good for the world or bad for the world?

(no one word answers)
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Old 04-30-2005, 04:39 PM   #2
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Re: U.S.A. -- good or evil?

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
question:

since the end of WW2


(no one word answers)
if you are going to compare to countries

USA on the whole
rates very high as good.
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Old 04-30-2005, 04:45 PM   #3
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Yes I agree

But it's subterfuge is evil. They work to support companies not people.
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Old 04-30-2005, 04:51 PM   #4
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Good
> Rebuilt Western Europe
> Protected South Korea from communist agression.
> Fought and won the cold war, liberating millions ~ flipside is the power vacuum and the instability that that created.
> Is one half of the reason that the world did not go up in an atomic fireball (the other half is obviously those in the USSR who let level heads prevail on numerous occasions.

Bad
> Getting involved in a colonial war, Vietnam.
> MK Ultra
> Supporting hardline governments for the greater good, a bad practice that yields some good in the long run unfortunately.
> Paying off Arab governments not to act up, like the billions of dollars given to Egypt as protection money.

Unintended Concequences
> Supporting the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan during the 1970's and 1980's.
> Unconditional support and deals with the Saudies.

I think that the USA has been a force for good, if it is to be considered an empire then it is an empire of influence and not one of domination. On the whole the USA is a force for good in the world.
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Old 04-30-2005, 04:54 PM   #5
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i'm also asking culturally, not just geo-politically.
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Old 04-30-2005, 04:57 PM   #6
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Scientifically some of the greatest discoveries have come from the USA. The US has the best space program in the world.
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Old 04-30-2005, 05:10 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
i'm also asking culturally, not just geo-politically.
Culturally? Ok

Good: (1) Bob Dylan
(2) John Lee Hooker
(3) Brett Easton Ellis
(4) David Lynch
& many more

Bad: (1) Britney Spears
(2) Most Hollywood Blockbusters


The account is in credit, as we say in the accountancy trade.
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Old 04-30-2005, 05:34 PM   #8
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Good when encouraging human rights, did right with the Marshall Plan, helped liberate Eastern Europe (with credit due Walesa, Gorby, Pope John Paul II).
Bad when emphasizing corporate profits over human rights, which it sometimes does, and strong-arm governments just because they were anti-Communist (i.e, Somoza in Nicaragua)
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Old 04-30-2005, 07:06 PM   #9
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cocacolonisation
*cough*

Sorry, you wanted more than a one word answer. Do you think any nation, not specifically the US can maintain such power? I think to call it perhaps the most powerful in history, is a stetch, but arguable for sure. But to simply be in this position is not entirely good (and conversely bad) but is more difficult to maintain as history shows.
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Old 05-01-2005, 03:08 AM   #10
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This is a difficult question. In the past we've done much good. I won't list them all, although someone else probably will--but short form: Bill of rights, industry, technology, science, aeronautics, movies. But try as I do, I cannot think of much good we are contributing right now.

1. I think the world will take much less notice of us when
we make claims for war in the future. I think our
credibility is shot to hell.
2. We are not being well-educated. I certainly would not
put out a PR billboard touting our educational prowess
(any everybody is to blame here--student, parent, teacher,
local and national government). There is really no
push to improve the quality of education.
3. The cost of medical care and pharmaceuticals and insurance is
skyrocketing. The quality of medical care is diminishing.
Apparently so is the quality of drugs being pushed on us.
4. All the politicians are stressing how Americans are the best
workers---blah, blah, blah and then we outsource.
5. I think we are proving the old adage that the business of
America is business--and only business.
6. When I see politicians calling French fries Freedom fries,
covering up the naked breast of a work of art, or doing
constitutional cartwheels to impeach a President for a blowjob
and the subsequent lie thereof, I cringe.
7. We are providing very little cultural impact. (Although I think
there are some interesting Indie films and independent books),
Hollywood is a rehash of old TV shows, old movies, and old
ideas. There is nothing fresh. There are a handful of
interesting TV shows. Everything else is Reality TV, the only
reality being that the shows are really cheap to produce
and get a good audience. (And now, the integrity of American
Idol is being impeached ) We do not support new
writers, new visions etc. Origininality has priced itself right out
of the market.
8. We do not want to hear any bad news, anything that goes
against our agendas, our reputations, ourbottom lines. We
don't want to do the investigations ahead of time that might
save the lives of our soldiers, our astronauts, our consumers.
We are in a very dangerous mindset. We are resting on our
laurels and don't think we have to do another thing.

Most of us are to blame in not demanding more and showing our determination to get it. We talk, we talk, we talk. But we watch the shows, we pay for the drugs, we support the school sports teams, but not the debating teams or the science clubs. We want our kids to get good grades, not necessarily a good education.
We think we will always be what we once were. I'm guilty of generally opting out of the system. And I have all the respect in the world for the people on this forum and everywhere else who are trying to make a difference. But right now, I think we are getting just about the right worldwide respect we are earning.

I think right now at this time, the world sees us as opportunistic morons with a lot of weaponry and no sense of history or the future.

Sigh, as I talk, talk, talk.
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Old 05-01-2005, 03:23 AM   #11
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Quote:
7. We are providing very little cultural impact. (Although I think
there are some interesting Indie films and independent books),
Hollywood is a rehash of old TV shows, old movies, and old
ideas. There is nothing fresh. There are a handful of
interesting TV shows. Everything else is Reality TV, the only
reality being that the shows are really cheap to produce
and get a good audience. (And now, the integrity of American
Idol is being impeached ) We do not support new
writers, new visions etc. Origininality has priced itself right out
of the market.
Just because something is crass and big budget does not mean that it cannot be hugely influential. The US entertainment industry has a big effect on how the world views you, be it the stereotypical dirt poor rednecks that you see on Jerry Springer or the usual reality palp.

There are some very good shows that get produced today in the US ~ your cable network HBO has given a few (The Sopranos, 6 feet under, Band of Brothers). Your regular commercial stations can still give out some good shows, The Simpsons, Buffy/Angel/Firefly (all Joss Whedon created though), Futurama, Star Trek (a franchise that has over its 40 years represented in quite a few ways American idealism).

The cultural impact of the US on the rest of us cannot be understated, it is no coincidence that US culture is at least reciogised and at most emulated around much of the world.

Quote:
8. We do not want to hear any bad news, anything that goes
against our agendas, our reputations, ourbottom lines. We
don't want to do the investigations ahead of time that might
save the lives of our soldiers, our astronauts, our consumers.
We are in a very dangerous mindset. We are resting on our
laurels and don't think we have to do another thing.
Quite the contrary, I would say that you cannot get enough bad news, bad news about your economy, bad news about your personal safety, bad news about the world. And I think that the idea of dragging astronaut safety into it; you have a space shuttle design from the 1970's ~ it is effective but not 100% safe; the shuttle disasters have been unforseen and could not have reasonably been avoided. Also for your soldiers there have been plenty of weapons systems pioneered during the 1980's and 1990's that have proven themselves extremely useful for your soldiers, these were built because the risk assesments and practical events showed where there were gaps ~ particuarly in the area of urban combat where modern targeting and communications technology has given the US battlefield superiority. All this tech was designed, built and rigorously field tested before it was needed in a combat environment.
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Old 05-01-2005, 03:49 AM   #12
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Wanderer's points are taken. However, we are not raising the bar for movies, TV, literature, etc. We are lowering it. We do have a few good shows. We should have the talent to have many more.

Americans are addicted to bad news. However, the manufacturers, politicians when it suits their agenda, businesses
are inclined to bury it before they are absolutely forced to fix the results.

There were shuttle warnings that NASA administration chose to ignore. Point is we wait until something horrible happens before we do anything about it. Government, manufacturers, etc. choose not to listen to their workers who actually have an inkling of what's going on. God knows, it happens every day in our own jobs. When a worker -- a physician, an engineer, a military person, a government staff member--is discouraged from going outside of the party line, you endanger everyone.

Re: Iraq. We have wonderful weapons. We were also told the Iraqis would be greeting us with flowers. Because we don't want anything like real facts getting in the way. I won't argue Iraq. But we certainly weren't prepared for it upfront. But those who lead us count on our short memories and even shorter attention spans.
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Old 05-01-2005, 03:59 AM   #13
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Good in the sense that:

- Americans can be great people to socialise with and are very fun loving
- Gave us REM, Live and the Foo Fighters
- Produce some great television
- There exists a strong and real desire amongst many Americans to want a peaceful world

Evil:

- Can be very arrogant.

- A lot of Americans are brainwashed into thinking that any religion besides those that take a Christian influence are inferior and "wrong."

- People who believe that "God" is the be all and end all, and believe that this "idea" actually influences the way of the world. This is outdated and too fanciful.

- Keep talking about Jesus. He is a DEAD MAN, get over it and relaise it's up to you to make a difference.

- Under the false impression that Capitalism is a perfect ideological system, when the reality is that it is extremely flawed and in urgent need of reform.

- Killed Socialism

- A Maniac for a president.

- KKK

- Mormons
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Old 05-01-2005, 06:15 AM   #14
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I know some pretty cool Mormons.
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Old 05-01-2005, 07:07 AM   #15
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Yes, intedomine, please be more respectful towards members who also post in this forum.

Let us please take into consideration what pax said recently about 'lumping' people together and calling them names, especially in a thread as potentially 'explosive' as this.


Ant.
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