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Old 05-01-2005, 07:39 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Anthony
especially in a thread as potentially 'explosive' as this.


*crosses fingers*

that was my plan from the start.



another question. let's say that another country had risen to the same level of dominance that the US currently enjoys. or, say, the UK never relinquished its empire and remained at the top.

how different would the world be today? are the actions of the US rooted more in the essential nature of that country, or the essential nature of the specific position of being the most powerful nation, whichever nation that might be?
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Old 05-01-2005, 08:31 AM   #17
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If we still had a British Empire and the U.S. were no longer a superpower things would be different. The mindset of the typical British subject isn't as "ruggedly individualist" as that of the typical U.S. citizen, and that would make some differences.
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Old 05-01-2005, 09:47 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Good
> Rebuilt Western Europe
> Protected South Korea from communist agression.
> Fought and won the cold war, liberating millions ~ flipside is the power vacuum and the instability that that created.
> Is one half of the reason that the world did not go up in an atomic fireball (the other half is obviously those in the USSR who let level heads prevail on numerous occasions.

Bad
> Getting involved in a colonial war, Vietnam.
> MK Ultra
> Supporting hardline governments for the greater good, a bad practice that yields some good in the long run unfortunately.
> Paying off Arab governments not to act up, like the billions of dollars given to Egypt as protection money.

Unintended Concequences
> Supporting the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan during the 1970's and 1980's.
> Unconditional support and deals with the Saudies.

I think that the USA has been a force for good, if it is to be considered an empire then it is an empire of influence and not one of domination. On the whole the USA is a force for good in the world.


I think if you look back at all the "empires" throughout history, we are by and large one of the *most* benevolent ones. We've done some things that I wish didn't have to happen (Hiroshima & Nagaski) but may have been necessary, and we've done some things that were out and out wrong...Nicaragua, Chile, etc. But if you compare that to the wholesale colonization and rape of Asia, Africa, and the Middle East by the French and British empires, we don't look as bad.

In fact, we have a history of actually helping countries to rebuild after we defeat them, see Japan.

I don't like a lot of what our government has done and a lot of what they're doing, and I think the overboard arrogant-American attitude can be annoying (same could be said for Europeans), but I still take pride in my country. I really do, and I don't think there's a problem with it.

Since you're talking mainly post-WW2, consider this. Would the world be better or worse off had the Soviets "won" the Cold War instead of us?
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Old 05-01-2005, 02:29 PM   #19
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Fuck no
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Old 05-01-2005, 02:34 PM   #20
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Everything that wanderer said

(shocking i know! )

i may be a liberal who can't stand the current administration but damnit i love this country despite some of its obvious and less obvious mistakes. we're #1, so naturally we're subject to immense criticism. some of which is true, some is not.
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Old 05-01-2005, 03:09 PM   #21
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Originally posted by verte76
and strong-arm governments just because they were anti-Communist (i.e, Somoza in Nicaragua)
Wow, I didn´t expect someone else here to know about Somoza.
(with a few exceptions)
Big - good college.

T´was a dictatorship, not a democratic government, btw.
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Old 05-01-2005, 03:12 PM   #22
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Originally posted by BonosSaint
We have wonderful weapons.
How can a weapon be a wonderful thing?
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Old 05-01-2005, 04:49 PM   #23
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Because it fufils its grotesque function better than any other.
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Old 05-01-2005, 05:01 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars


Wow, I didn´t expect someone else here to know about Somoza.
(with a few exceptions)
Big - good college.

T´was a dictatorship, not a democratic government, btw.
Yes, actually there were two Somozas, a couple of generations. The first one was installed in Nicaragua in the '30's--he'd been a used car salesman in Philadelphia, and they installed him as dictator in Nicaragua. President Roosevelt said "Somoza may be a son of a bh, but he's our S.O.B." The second one pissed off the business community in Nicaragua with his greed, so they didn't save him from the revolutionaries. Eventually the place got straightened up with democratic elections.
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Old 05-01-2005, 07:58 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Anthony
Yes, intedomine, please be more respectful towards members who also post in this forum.

Let us please take into consideration what pax said recently about 'lumping' people together and calling them names, especially in a thread as potentially 'explosive' as this.
Ant.
Seriously dude, get over yourself. The reality is, posts remotely critical of the USA are routinely censored here.

Any poster critical of anything non-USA can just about get away with anything.

Don't even bring Pax into it, in my view she is the most pro-American biased mod ever.

F**k it, American lump Muslims as terrorists all the time, and also they lump Europeans as Socialists are whatever.

I have seen this on here, and the mods never object to it, so spare me the sanctimonious whinging about cry-baby Americans.
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Old 05-01-2005, 08:26 PM   #26
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Originally posted by financeguy


Seriously dude, get over yourself. The reality is, posts remotely critical of the USA are routinely censored here.

Any poster critical of anything non-USA can just about get away with anything.

Don't even bring Pax into it, in my view she is the most pro-American biased mod ever.

F**k it, American lump Muslims as terrorists all the time, and also they lump Europeans as Socialists are whatever.

I have seen this on here, and the mods never object to it, so spare me the sanctimonious whinging about cry-baby Americans.
Oh please. Anti-American posts are not censored.

But you will face severe questioning of stupid anti-American posts because of the large number of Americans on this board.

And Pax does a great, even-handed job in her role as Mod.
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Old 05-01-2005, 08:32 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader

Oh please. Anti-American posts are not censored.
Really? In that case what happened to the George Bush thread that someone started yesterday. It appears to have miraculously disappeared!
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Old 05-01-2005, 08:42 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader

because of the large number of Americans on this board.

And Pax does a great, even-handed job in her role as Mod.
In relation to point 1, I would see that as a "chicken-and-egg" type argument, i.e. non Americans are perhaps reluctant to post if they see the majority of posters are Americans.

In relation to point 2, I'll keep my thoughts to myself on that one.
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Old 05-01-2005, 09:09 PM   #29
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I thought Ant was talking about the obvious Jesus-bashing in intedomine's post.
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Old 05-01-2005, 10:05 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy


Really? In that case what happened to the George Bush thread that someone started yesterday. It appears to have miraculously disappeared!
That would be the totally unproductive flamebait that was sent to locksville and has since shifted to page 2.
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