"truth, justice, and all that stuff ..."

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Irvine511

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so Superman is back, but he's gone from "truth, justice, and the American way" to something far more international ...

[q]Superman eschews longtime patriot act

By Tatiana Siegel

Nevermind Superman's sexual orientation. Here's another identity-related question that is likely to spark controversy as the Man of Steel soars into theaters nationwide this Fourth of July weekend in Warner Bros. Pictures' "Superman Returns": Is Superman still American?

Ever since artist Joe Shuster and writer Jerry Siegel created the granddaddy of all comic book icons in 1932, Superman has fought valiantly to preserve "truth, justice and the American way." Whether kicking Nazi ass on the radio in the '40s or wrapping himself in the Stars and Stripes on TV during the Cold War or even rescuing the White House's flag as his final feat in "Superman II," the Krypton-born, Smallville-raised Ubermensch always has been steeped in unmistakable U.S. symbolism.

But in the latest film incarnation, scribes Michael Dougherty and Dan Harris sought to downplay Superman's long-standing patriot act. With one brief line uttered by actor Frank Langella, the caped superhero's mission transformed from "truth, justice and the American way" to "truth, justice and all that stuff."

"The world has changed. The world is a different place," Pennsylvania native Harris says. "The truth is he's an alien. He was sent from another planet. He has landed on the planet Earth, and he is here for everybody. He's an international superhero."

In fact, Dougherty and Harris never even considered including "the American way" in their screenplay. After the wunderkind writing duo ("X2: X-Men United") conceived "Superman's" story with director Bryan Singer during a Hawaiian vacation, they penned their first draft together and intentionally omitted what they considered to be a loaded and antiquated expression. That decision stood throughout the 140-day shoot in Australia, where the pair remained on-set to provide revisions and tweaks.

"We were always hesitant to include the term 'American way' because the meaning of that today is somewhat uncertain," Ohio native Dougherty explains. "The ideal hasn't changed. I think when people say 'American way,' they're actually talking about what the 'American way' meant back in the '40s and '50s, which was something more noble and idealistic."

While audiences in Dubuque might bristle at Superman's newfound global agenda, patrons in Dubai likely will find the DC Comics protagonist more palatable. And with the increasing importance of the overseas boxoffice -- as evidenced by summer tentpoles like "The Da Vinci Code" -- foreign sensibilities can no longer be ignored.

"So, you play the movie in a foreign country, and you say, 'What does he stand for? -- truth, justice and the American way.' I think a lot of people's opinions of what the American way means outside of this country are different from what the line actually means (in Superman lore) because they are not the same anymore," Harris says. "And (using that line) would taint the meaning of what he is saying."

But for Superman purists looking for a nod to the big blue Boy Scout's nationalistic loyalties, he is still saving Americans, albeit many with suspiciously Aussie accents. He foils Lex Luthor's nefarious plan to send millions from the nation's heartland to a watery death. And in his most impressive scene, the hero saves the day while a plane hurtles toward a baseball stadium full of fans enjoying America's pastime. Although there is no indication that it is an American baseball game depicted, the scene was one of the few shot on U.S. soil, at Dodger Stadium.

Nevertheless, the long-standing member of the Justice League of America seems to have traded in his allegiance to the flag for an international passport.

"He's here for humanity," Dougherty says.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr/columns/film_reporter_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1002764635

[/q]




has being an American become a source of shame? has the American image been so tarnished over the past 6 years (or longer) that it's now a liability? has America itself spawned a backlash against herself?
 
No. I don't think so. People are in a phase where it's cool to Hate the word America or in general America herself. If Bryan Singer is going to do that to a Character that is beloved by millions, he should have stuck with X-men.
 
Yeah, I noticed that omission when I saw the movie on Weds.

I don't know that it's that big a deal. I think it had less to do with America's tarnished image, but perhaps a more "politically correct" sensibility where the "American way" shouldn't be any "better" than the "Chinese way" or the "British way" or. . ."the African way." Today, Superman understands that there are good people in ALL countries. . .he's about the "human way" or the "way of the world."

"Truth, Justice, and the Way of the World" Yeah.

Obviously I'm being a bit tongue in cheek.

I don't think they had to take it out. I don't think anyone needs to get all riled up about the fact that they did.

But of course people will.
 
I'm laughing too hard to make a sensible response. I'll try later.
 
I noticed right away that they left out American way, but I didn't think twice about it other than that-Superman in that outfit was too distracting :wink:

I still don't believe being American is a source of shame, in spite of all the shame I have about certain things that have transpired-and frankly our President.

Maybe they just didn't want the movie to be some rah rah movie in that way and I think it's likely it was a PC thing and not some grand statement.
 
Irvine511 said:
i think Superman is *so* on his way to Gitmo where he's going to be waterboarded.

Nah, all they need is a piece of kryptonite and he'll sing.
 
verte76 said:
I think this is good. Things have changed, and Superman shouldn't be confined to one nationality.

Do we even have any record that he is a U.S. citizen? He was born on Krypton right?

And I know this is a bit off-topic, but has Superman ever been sued because "he didn't save ME?"
 
maycocksean said:


Do we even have any record that he is a U.S. citizen? He was born on Krypton right?

And I know this is a bit off-topic, but has Superman ever been sued because "he didn't save ME?"

There's no evidence that Superman has ever been a U.S. citizen.:wink:
 
verte76 said:


There's no evidence that Superman has ever been a U.S. citizen.:wink:

If I were Lex Luthor, I'd simply demand that he'd work beneath minimum wage or threaten to have him deported for being an illegal alien.
 
maycocksean said:
And I know this is a bit off-topic, but has Superman ever been sued because "he didn't save ME?"



ever see "The Incredibles"?

mr_incredible.jpg





(actually, i watched it on TV a week or so ago, and it's amazing just how good that movie is, from top to bottom, a great film)
 
maycocksean said:


Nah, all they need is a piece of kryptonite and he'll sing.



and if Superman is the defender of American citizens, and Kryptonite poses a danger to Superman, then Kryptonite poses a danger to American citizens, so therefore we must invade Krypton and remove this weapon of Superman's destruction.
 
I've seen the movie...and I think someone is trying to stir up controversy where none exists.:eyebrow:

Also, I've heard Joe Shuster and Jerry Siegel were Canadians!
 
Irvine511 said:




and if Superman is the defender of American citizens, and Kryptonite poses a danger to Superman, then Kryptonite poses a danger to American citizens, so therefore we must invade Krypton and remove this weapon of Superman's destruction.


No need--Krypton destroyed itself!


:wink:
 
deep said:


"W supports torture."

Say it out loud.

Speak the truth,
at least once a day.

I am saying it was those individuals who did that to fellow human beings.
 
deep, Justin, give it a break.

Anyhow I agree with maycocksean (and the kryptonite quip... :lmao: ), this probably has more to do with the "globalization" of Superman than anything else. Which does mean you can't assume "American way" as an unproblematic, universally accepted shorthand for the pursuit of freedom, justice, strong civic-mindedness and "all that stuff" in quite the same fashion as you used to. And really, for all its noble intentions and inspiring principles, there was also quite the dose of arrogance and presumptiveness in the old formulation, anyhow. In real life people who are convinced they're destined to lead the way have a tendency to step on everyone else's toes in their sprint to the front of the line.
 
:uhoh: *waits for nightmarish photoshop of Al Gore in Superman outfit to be posted*
 
Irvine511 said:
if Al Gore were our president, it would still be "truth, justice, and the American way."

:tsk:

Because he is a democrat and Democrats are better. Truth, Justice and Mother Natures way.

You cannot possibly say that especially if he were president and had to deal with 9/11. He would have been pressured by the same folks.

I could see Al dressed as Captain Planet for Halloween every year.
 
Justin24 said:


Because he is a democrat and Democrats are better. Truth, Justice and Mother Natures way.

You cannot possibly say that especially if he were president and had to deal with 9/11. He would have been pressured by the same folks.

I could see Al dressed as Captain Planet for Halloween every year.



it was a joke :shh:
 
kimby said:
I've seen the movie...and I think someone is trying to stir up controversy where none exists.:eyebrow:

Also, I've heard Joe Shuster and Jerry Siegel were Canadians!

Joe Shuster was Canadian, Jerry Siegel wasn't.
 
Irvine511 said:
has being an American become a source of shame? has the American image been so tarnished over the past 6 years (or longer) that it's now a liability? has America itself spawned a backlash against herself?

Far being a source of shame (despite continuing societal flagellation regarding our self-worth as a country), the term “American Way” has been so politicized for a couple of generations that the current crowd of movie goers would not understand the context of the phrase as originally used in Superman. With prominent groups like the “People for the American Way” trumpeting their own political agenda, it is not hard to understand why producers felt a need to back away from the phrase.

And Al Gore saving the "American Way"? :lmao:
 
Considering the word "American" has been tarnished with far-right jingoism, I find it to be unsurprising that Hollywood has developed a distate for the phrase.

Conservatives insist on calling all liberals "treasonous" and "unpatriotic." Well, perhaps you can call it a self-fulfilling prophesy, much in the same way the word "family" has become synonymous with "fascism" these days.

Melon
 
Way off topic, I could care less about Superman or his american way, but I noted that some of the blurb about the new movie had him returning to his home planet of Krypton to see if there was still life there.

Which makes no sense to me, as my fairly clear memories of the 1978 Superman story were that the planet EXPLODED just before the baby Superman's craft sped to safety. There's no there, there, Superman!

It's surreal! The train is going into the fireplace and the watches are melting.
 
verte76 said:
Things have changed

You can say that again. The Daily Planet of the 40's never printed classified information about The Manhattan Project, breaking the Nazi Enigma Code or rumors of a June invasion somewhere in France in which "high-placed sources" predict tens of thousands of American soldiers may die.

To be fair, neither did the New York Times of the 40's. Oh my, how things have changed.
 
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