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Old 03-04-2007, 12:42 PM   #1
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Truth about conversion

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6412453.stm

"They claim that Islamic extremists in Iraq are trying to wipe them out through forced conversions, rape and murder.

Worse, he was forcibly converted. That means in the eyes of those same extremists if he now declares himself Mandaean he is apostate.

That makes him a traitor to Islam, who may be murdered. He says he will not be safe in any Muslim country.

Then there is Enhar, raped by a gang of masked men in front of her husband - because she would not wear a veil.

Mandaean elders use words like annihilation and genocide - they believe Islamic militants, both Sunni and Shia, offer them two choices - convert or die. "
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Old 03-04-2007, 01:05 PM   #2
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Nah... don't worry about it. These are just a very, very small group of extremists. There is really nothing to worry about.

I'm more scared of fundamental Christians to be honest with you. Especially the political activists ones!
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Old 03-04-2007, 01:30 PM   #3
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^ so, in order to make those who fall under the label of "evangelical, politicized Christians" seem a little less scary, you resort to comparisons with Islamofascists?
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Old 03-04-2007, 01:56 PM   #4
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one more reason why the ginned up reasons for going into Iraq are criminal

the Shia, Sunnis and all groups were able to live side by side before the coalition created a vacuum

now a free-for-all has been unleashed

where the strong and stronger will only continue their jihad on the weaker groups

no one really cares what happens in Iraq

as long as we can get the petroleum production agreement in place
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Old 03-04-2007, 04:34 PM   #5
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Based on the article, it sounds as if the only thing Western governments can likely do for the remaining Iraqi Mandaeans at this point is to offer them asylum (which the Jordanians and Syrians have already done for 90% of them--not sure if that includes citizenship status, though). Regardless of whether the US stays or goes militarily, and given the scope of the conflict, a minority this small and vulnerable is likely to wind up getting run down anyway, if there truly is widespread and systematic persecution of them taking place. They aren't one of the major groups "fighting for their slice of the pie" and probably never have been in a position to do that.

The thread title is a bit of a puzzler as to the scope of what it's meant to imply, since Iraq (and apparently, a neighboring province of Iran as well) is the only place in the world where the Mandaeans have managed to stick around for two millennia, despite being a tiny minority in an overwhelmingly Muslim region. Ethnoreligious nationalism in a militarized environment, especially once there's already a war going on, can be an ugly thing; that much is not news, though.
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Old 03-04-2007, 07:56 PM   #6
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Old 03-04-2007, 11:10 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
one more reason why the ginned up reasons for going into Iraq are criminal

the Shia, Sunnis and all groups were able to live side by side before the coalition created a vacuum
Yes, on the proviso that the state would brutally murder any ethnic minorities that were causing problems; I am not saying that sectarian militias are preferable but the iron fisted rule of Saddam was not harmony.
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Old 03-04-2007, 11:40 PM   #8
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Yes, on the proviso that the state would brutally murder any ethnic minorities that were causing problems; I am not saying that sectarian militias are preferable but the iron fisted rule of Saddam was not harmony.
"would brutally murder any ethnic minorities"

is that really the case
or was he just going after the ones that were trying to topple him?

much like they do in Saudi Arabia and Egypt

"the iron fisted rule of Saddam was not harmony"

Sunnis and Shia could choose to live side by side

it was a functioning, secular society, where this small, christian sect existed without much difficulty

Now after two thousand years, it is ironic that W's freedom has driven them out
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Old 03-05-2007, 12:29 AM   #9
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I stated that were causing problems - but rather than merely go after rebel groups going after whole towns and communities. But extending furthur back these religious minorities were only able to exist in Muslim lands because they lived as Dhimmis and paid their protection money - they were not equals in the society.
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Old 03-05-2007, 01:42 AM   #10
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Mandaeans aren't Christians.

I don't agree that Saddam's rule was "harmonious" either, but to suggest that the present situation (particularly for Mandaeans) is simply reversion to the pre-Saddam status quo is unfounded; you wouldn't likely have 90% of them fleeing their homeland of two thousand years in just a few years' time if that were the case.

As far as jizya tax goes, that was abolished by the Ottoman sultan in 1856 and not revived by the Hashemite monarchy installed by the British.
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Old 03-07-2007, 02:37 AM   #11
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In 1990s there were 60000 Mandaeans in Iraq

Now there are 5000-7000 in Iraq.

Is this the "sticking around" ?
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Old 03-07-2007, 02:55 AM   #12
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No one was characterizing the present situation as sticking around.
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