Trump General Discussion VI

[Moonlit_Angel]

Oh, FFS, seriously?

Fuck everything about this hellish administration. We are so badly screwed.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Wait for it...

 

[BVS]

Wait for it...

Way to go Fox

 

[Salome]

No leader is perfect but they have to know when they **** up they have to fix it. Merkel flubbed the Syrian problem but she's been good in other ways.

Merkel didn't flub anything.
The vast, vast, vast majority of refugees need help.
And Europe (much like the US) is in the fortunate position we have it a thousand times better than most of the planet.
You don't turn a blind eye on endless suffering because you fear a couple rotten apples. You deal with it.
This pretence we're under attack so we won't need to help people actually under attack is disgusting. We're not animals.

 

[bloodysunday972]

Oh boy where do I start? lol OK Ill go down this question by question.

I have many questions.
What does political correctness have to do with anything? What is it that you think political correctness is? What is this obsession with "safe spaces" that the right dwells on so much and you rarely ever hear about in practice from anyone on the left?

That you cant discuss anything without being labelled a racist, a bigot, etc etc. I got into a discussion with a known liberal talk show host by the name of Bill Press over gun control a few years ago. I supported background checks but I was explaining actual facts to him in a respectful way. When he couldn't come up with a sophisticated response he shouted get off the phone loser and hung up on me. On college campuses it seems to be a growing trend you cannot have a civil discussion/debate without it being degraded to yelling and name calling. A lot of people get angry when you cannot have a spirited debate with someone and a blending of ideas without someone turning into racism or some other label in order to shut the other side down. Remember when I said it felt like we were being lectured to every time the president didn't get his way? It felt like that. That is my definition of so called political correctness. College campuses are getting more and more heated over today's topics. We have to get past labels on both sides to find common ground. Explain to me how threatening to kill physically harming a man who was speaking at Berkeley because he wants to express his concerns about Sharia law and its anti gay anti woman views? Destroying property because they want attention? I am involved in 2nd amendment advocate on a local level and when you have a state legislator telling a rape victim you should have used a whistle instead of wanting to have a gun to defend herself.....That screams arrogance and trying to be PC to defend her stance. The idea of safe space you may be right it gets more coverage then what is reality but the concept is idiotic.

Are you aware that "America first" is extremely similar to the rhetoric of the Nazi regime? That rampant nationalism-based xenophobia is always a precursor to something much darker than whatever you think is going to happen because of the acceptance of refugees?
The same thing can be said for the statement Black Lives Matter right? All Lives Matter....I think it only clouds the picture to tie things to history as opposed to dealing what is hear and now. For instance. You can liken the death threats of electors because they chose to vote for the person their state voted for. Or the guy that was tortured by activists because he was a Trump supporter which is now being tried as a hate crime to the same thing.You can liken those things to Nazism. Also I find it rather ironic that a lot of protesters are screaming rally against hate, anti fascism etc etc while waving the hammer and sickle of the communist Russian flag. A political view that cracked down on descent and free speech. Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Poland, Romania.....You see what I mean? You can put labels on anything. To tie this to history however appropriate it may seem only muddies the waters. We must deal with what is hear and now in this generation

Why do you think the American economy is similar to a credit card bill? (It is very different.) And don't you think the bill the next generation will be footing in terms of environmental destruction because of Trump's stated and now real rollbacks of regulations is going to be the real problem longterm?
Yes enviromentalism is going to be a concern in the future but let me ask you this. The EPA. A Govt organization that puts regulations in place to protect the earth willfully ignores local officials, owners of the mine etc and opens up a gold mine spilling a massive amount of drain water which contained chemicals into the Colorado river turning it yellow. and then not claiming responsibility is that an example of preventing pollution? There are talks about suing the EPA over the gold mine incident....It was willful ignorance and people should have been prosecuted but nothing to date has happened. Yes we have to protect the earth but it is a multi level approach. The Standing Rock pipeline should have been re routed.....Trump failed there but while you can't stop oil and natural gas you can spend a lot more to make it safer as far as transport etc goes.

The national debt has to come down or some day those debts will be called in. You have to admit there is a lot of wasteful spending on both sides.



Are you a white man? Based on this passage I suspect that you are.
What does my race have to do with it? You know your statement about America first being similar to Nazi slogans? When you ask me my race you do know you are being racist by your statement? It doesn't need to be dragged down to that level. Although it doesn't matter I am of Polish & Irish descent.

Trump won for a multitude of reasons but the number one reason was the incompetence of Hillary Clinton, her campaign staff, and the Democratic Party.
I agree, Her blindness and arrogance sank her.

 

[bloodysunday972]

Wait for it...

Ugh Fox.....They are as bad as the rest of them.

 

[anitram]

Black Lives Matter right? All Lives Matter....

Thanks for participating in the discourse by offering such detailed posts. It's certainly refreshing.

Does it strike you as at least mildly hypocritical that all those All Lives Matter protesters have been nowhere to be found when it comes to Syrian refugees? Other refugees from predominantly Muslim countries who are being targeted by Trump? All those women and children?

Now I wonder why the All Lives Matter crowd couldn't care less. I mean, I could take a guess...

 

[bloodysunday972]

This is a man who believes the Flintstones is a documentary.

Yeah that idiot doesn't represent me.

I want to ask all of you are you enjoying this discussion & the blending of ideas? If this is causing problems we should perhaps back it off. If not we can continue. I do like having open discussions with all walks of life.

 

[trojanchick99]

If you aren't angry that a noted white nationalist is on the National Security Council, there's really no help for you.

President Tiny Hands does not have the temperament to be POTUS. He has shown time again that he cannot take any slight. Can you imagine is President Obama took EVERY opportunity to snark on those on the right who questioned his country of birth, questioned his religion, questioned his love of his country?

I'm a "coastal elite". The economy in California is booming. Why? Because we adapted. When the aerospace industry left, we looked elsewhere because we knew it wasn't ever coming back. The "Rust belt" needs to adapt. It's not going to be easy, and we know the Feds haven't really addressed it, but it has to happen. The manufacturing jobs aren't coming back in large numbers because we can't pay our labor force pennies and Americans have shown they prefer to pay less for goods from China and more for USA made.

 

[bloodysunday972]

Thanks for participating in the discourse by offering such detailed posts. It's certainly refreshing.

Does it strike you as at least mildly hypocritical that all those All Lives Matter protesters have been nowhere to be found when it comes to Syrian refugees? Other refugees from predominantly Muslim countries who are being targeted by Trump? All those women and children?

Now I wonder why the All Lives Matter crowd couldn't care less. I mean, I could take a guess...

Well I'm here. I think Trumps order was half cocked and should have been approached differently. The Syrian problem is very complex in the sense that what is the best way to separate the good from the bad? I think both sides need to come together with a solution. You can't have free flow without vetting but you can't be so restrictive you are denying a better way of life.

Oh and Kuwait has just issued travel, immigrant bans from seven majority Muslim countries so its not just America.

 

[bloodysunday972]

If you aren't angry that a noted white nationalist is on the National Security Council, there's really no help for you.

President Tiny Hands does not have the temperament to be POTUS. He has shown time again that he cannot take any slight.

Trojan -Give me actual proof he is a nationalist and Ill believe you. A lot of what I hear from the various news organizations are half truths or outright BS recently so I try to be more subjective to what I believe and that is both sides.


Clinton has ruined peoples lives over the years because they crossed her.....Do you really believe she wouldn't have done the same?

If so you have blinders on.

I am noticing some of the most vocal liberals against Trump have no problem taking him down but have no thoughts on how to fix the problem. If we spent more time trying to solve the problems instead of pointing fingers it would be amazing what we could accomplish.

 

[clipper699]

Benghazi wasn't the deal breaker but it helped. Why didn't the administration call it a terrorist attack from the get go?

My two cents, and probably not worth litigating this again, but...

The Senate Select Committee on Intelligence issued its final report on the Benghazi incident on 15 January 2014. In it, the Committee offered it's comprehensive analysis, and concluded that the initial mis-characterization of the attack resulted from a failure of the pertinent intelligence agency, to wit, the CIA. The administration simply, but mistakenly, relied upon that flawed intelligence. The report further serves to scuttle the inane right-wing "news" reporting that then Secretary Clinton was responsible for the attack, or at least was responsible for failing to appropriately respond. On that account, it is also worth checking out the February 2014 report authored by Rep. Buck McKeon (R) on behalf of the House Armed Services Committee. That report, which exclusively represented Republican perspective, found that there was nothing that anybody/any entity could do to mitigate the effect of the attack, once it had begun.

Yes, I am aware that at this point, these facts likely do not matter. They do serve, however, to point out that although a narrative may serve to confirm individual bias, it's worth looking behind the news when making critical civic determinations, like, whether we're okay voting someone as vile as Trump into the Oval.

 

[bloodysunday972]

I haven't watched that documentary but i would bet that the majority of the arms in possession of the drug cartels in Mexico are exported from the US, at the end of the day there are no restrictions to selling any kind of guns here.

You are right they are.....But they come from US military store houses. M16'S, M60 machine guns, 50 Caliber M2 machine guns, Grenades, Rocket launchers etc etc.

Look at some of the photos from captured caches and notice what is there.
Also Central and South America still has a lot of arms left over from the various wars and they make their way up to Mexico as well.

Brand new select fire Chinese Type 56 AKM rifles (Machine guns)

 

[Babydoll]

It could also be the difference in news direct from Germany vs what we get here.

As you live in Germany maybe you can explain it better for me

Angela Merkel warns against refugee backlash after murder case – POLITICO
Merkel faces backlash after collapse of case against German comedian for insulting Erdogan
AfD blames Angela Merkel's immigration policy for Berlin Christmas market attack | Daily Mail Online

No Good Deed Goes Unpunished: Angela Merkel Suffers Backlash against Her Immigration Policy

So 2 articles are from tabloids geared towards sensationalism, one in particular unashamedly sticking to their far-right views and pushing them. Might want to read up about the Daily Mail before quoting it as a 'source.' You could as well have quoted Breitbart or newobserveronline.com since they 'fit' your beliefs better.

Secondly: what 'mass rapes?' And since when do men suddenly care so much about women's safety? Only because y'all now believe it's the 'other' who's supposedly committing atrocities, suddenly you're all knights in shining armor. Give me a break.

Thirdly, we got an influx of close to a million people here. Out of a million, there have been maybe two or three documented cases of a crime committed by a refugee. So what? 3 out of 1 million? Is that your line of demarcation?

 

[Babydoll]

Thanks for participating in the discourse by offering such detailed posts. It's certainly refreshing.

Does it strike you as at least mildly hypocritical that all those All Lives Matter protesters have been nowhere to be found when it comes to Syrian refugees? Other refugees from predominantly Muslim countries who are being targeted by Trump? All those women and children?

Now I wonder why the All Lives Matter crowd couldn't care less. I mean, I could take a guess...

This.

And the anti-abortionists who are perfectly ok with having Syrian children suffer. Stop pretending you care.

 

[BVS]

That you cant discuss anything without being labelled a racist, a bigot, etc etc. I got into a discussion with a known liberal talk show host by the name of Bill Press over gun control a few years ago. I supported background checks but I was explaining actual facts to him in a respectful way. When he couldn't come up with a sophisticated response he shouted get off the phone loser and hung up on me. On college campuses it seems to be a growing trend you cannot have a civil discussion/debate without it being degraded to yelling and name calling. A lot of people get angry when you cannot have a spirited debate with someone and a blending of ideas without someone turning into racism or some other label in order to shut the other side down. Remember when I said it felt like we were being lectured to every time the president didn't get his way? It felt like that. That is my definition of so called political correctness. College campuses are getting more and more heated over today's topics. We have to get past labels on both sides to find common ground. Explain to me how threatening to kill physically harming a man who was speaking at Berkeley because he wants to express his concerns about Sharia law and its anti gay anti woman views? Destroying property because they want attention? I am involved in 2nd amendment advocate on a local level and when you have a state legislator telling a rape victim you should have used a whistle instead of wanting to have a gun to defend herself.....That screams arrogance and trying to be PC to defend her stance. The idea of safe space you may be right it gets more coverage then what is reality but the concept is idiotic.

Man, that was all over the place, and practically none of this has to do with PC. You just gave examples of people who couldn't have discussions, if that was the definition then Trump definitely IS PC.

Are you aware that "America first" is extremely similar to the rhetoric of the Nazi regime? That rampant nationalism-based xenophobia is always a precursor to something much darker than whatever you think is going to happen because of the acceptance of refugees?
The same thing can be said for the statement Black Lives Matter right? All Lives Matter....I think it only clouds the picture to tie things to history as opposed to dealing what is hear and now. For instance. You can liken the death threats of electors because they chose to vote for the person their state voted for. Or the guy that was tortured by activists because he was a Trump supporter which is now being tried as a hate crime to the same thing.You can liken those things to Nazism. Also I find it rather ironic that a lot of protesters are screaming rally against hate, anti fascism etc etc while waving the hammer and sickle of the communist Russian flag. A political view that cracked down on descent and free speech. Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Poland, Romania.....You see what I mean? You can put labels on anything. To tie this to history however appropriate it may seem only muddies the waters. We must deal with what is hear and now in this generation

One is a presidential platform, and all of your examples are individual acts.

 

[Babydoll]

Ugh, give me a break with your 'Sharia law' bs, please.

 

[bloodysunday972]

Ugh, give me a break with your 'Sharia law' bs, please.

Babydoll this is an open discussion please tell me why you disagree with me?

 

[bloodysunday972]

Man, that was all over the place, and practically none of this has to do with PC. You just gave examples of people who couldn't have discussions, if that was the definition then Trump definitely IS PC.

One is a presidential platform, and all of your examples are individual acts.

OK you want more of an example of being PC. Side stepping the issues to be PC. The previous administration wouldn't call Radical Islamic Terrorism for what it was. Obama got a lot of flack for that.

Crap like recalling a group of dolls from Django Unchained because they were deemed racist....They depicted a time in history....Nothing about the dolls anyone in their right mind should have considered offensive.

Little things like that. Some of it is justified but on the smallest little thing? It gets stupid. The Django figures was pretty stupid.

 

[bloodysunday972]

So 2 articles are from tabloids geared towards sensationalism, one in particular unashamedly sticking to their far-right views and pushing them. Might want to read up about the Daily Mail before quoting it as a 'source.' You could as well have quoted Breitbart or newobserveronline.com since they 'fit' your beliefs better.

Secondly: what 'mass rapes?' And since when do men suddenly care so much about women's safety? Only because y'all now believe it's the 'other' who's supposedly committing atrocities, suddenly you're all knights in shining armor. Give me a break.

Thirdly, we got an influx of close to a million people here. Out of a million, there have been maybe two or three documented cases of a crime committed by a refugee. So what? 3 out of 1 million? Is that your line of demarcation?

This is why I want others opinions who live there. Remember something the news likes to sensationalize things....A lot of the time its half truths or no truths at all.

I would like to hear what you actually encounter over there. It adds another perspective.

 

[bloodysunday972]

This.

And the anti-abortionists who are perfectly ok with having Syrian children suffer. Stop pretending you care.

When did I say I was anti abortion or are you generalizing?

 

[Babydoll]

Babydoll this is an open discussion please tell me why you disagree with me?

1. Firstly, it makes no sense to say 'Sharia law.' Sharia is the Arabic word for law. So 'law law' sounds a tad silly. As silly as 'chai tea' or 'naan bread.'

2. You think bringing a few refugees suffering greatly is going to threaten the landscape of US laws? I've seen this a lot; a lot of folks are afraid of any Muslims going to the US because of 'zomg Sharia law!!!' You really think that a few Muslims coming over will result in different laws? Because they have the power to... how?

3. What do you know about Sharia that makes it so scary to you?

 

[Babydoll]

This is why I want others opinions who live there. Remember something the news likes to sensationalize things....A lot of the time its half truths or no truths at all.

I would like to hear what you actually encounter over there. It adds another perspective.

I haven't encountered much, other than normal daily city life, lol. What do you mean specifically asking me what I've encountered? If you ask me specifically, I can answer based on my own experience.

 

[Babydoll]

I'm headed to bed now, so I will respond to any questions you have in the AM.

 

[anitram]

bloodysunday, you haven't talked much about Trump's temperament (I don't blame you). Could you tell us how you feel about his behaviour? By that I mean, his mean tweeting, his apparent inability to let any slight (perceived or otherwise) go, his obsession with being loved (large crowds), his impatience and lack of understanding as to what is legislatively possible (no, you can't re-negotiate NAFTA in the near term), his vulgarity (referring to the size of his penis in a national debate) his rudeness and crudeness towards women and so on.

I have a young son, he is just a toddler, but I often think about how we are raising him and the thing I say to him on an almost daily basis is that the most important thing in life is to be kind. I would be horrified and appalled if he grew up to be even 1% as vulgar and classless as Trump. My brother and mother are both teachers and they would not allow kids in the classroom to behave in this way. And we are talking about kids without complete impulse control, and raging teenage hormones. If we expect, as we should, better from THEM, how can we tolerate having such a boorish, classless man of nearly 70 to lead the nation? Is it not embarrassing to you?

Say what you will of Obama's policies, but his behaviour, the 8 years of absolutely NO drama, were commendable.

 

[bloodysunday972]

1. Firstly, it makes no sense to say 'Sharia law.' Sharia is the Arabic word for law. So 'law law' sounds a tad silly. As silly as 'chai tea' or 'naan bread.'

2. You think bringing a few refugees suffering greatly is going to threaten the landscape of US laws? I've seen this a lot; a lot of folks are afraid of any Muslims going to the US because of 'zomg Sharia law!!!' You really think that a few Muslims coming over will result in different laws? Because they have the power to... how?

3. What do you know about Sharia that makes it so scary to you?

Well for one we have a friend who lives in Dubai who is under Sharia. She is under the boot of her husband. She has to watch what she says on FB. She absolutely hates it and is in fear of what could happen to her if she speaks up.

Things like throwing acid in the face of a woman who is wronged under Sharia. That isn't wrong?

Its not just against women the LGBT community is in direct danger under Sharia.


I want you to look up a name. Her name is Anni Cyrus
https://youtu.be/Xr0i8h3Pt2c

https://www.facebook.com/WOMEN-OF-THE-WORLD-UNITED-AGAINST-ISLAMICMUSLIM-SHARIA-LAW-276988682771/


I am not saying the refugee situation would directly result in Sharia but if you want a good example of the dangers of Sharia I want you to also look up the Taliban's version of Islamic law that was enforced during their time ruling Afghanistan.

 

[BVS]

OK you want more of an example of being PC. Side stepping the issues to be PC. The previous administration wouldn't call Radical Islamic Terrorism for what it was. Obama got a lot of flack for that.



Crap like recalling a group of dolls from Django Unchained because they were deemed racist....They depicted a time in history....Nothing about the dolls anyone in their right mind should have considered offensive.



Little things like that. Some of it is justified but on the smallest little thing? It gets stupid. The Django figures was pretty stupid.

Obama did use the word 'terrorism' just not at every turn of the corner. And yes the likes of Hannity and O'Reiley gave him flack, but given the fact that you believe it, we can take a guess at where you get your news

It was an odd choice of movie to make action figures from in the first place. Just because it was a time in our history doesn't mean it should be a toy. Do you want your child playing master and slave?

Holocaust action figures, assassinated president dolls, Japanese entrenchment camp games? Just part of history.

 

[bloodysunday972]

bloodysunday, you haven't talked much about Trump's temperament (I don't blame you). Could you tell us how you feel about his behaviour? By that I mean, his mean tweeting, his apparent inability to let any slight (perceived or otherwise) go, his obsession with being loved (large crowds), his impatience and lack of understanding as to what is legislatively possible (no, you can't re-negotiate NAFTA in the near term), his vulgarity (referring to the size of his penis in a national debate) his rudeness and crudeness towards women and so on.

I have a young son, he is just a toddler, but I often think about how we are raising him and the thing I say to him on an almost daily basis is that the most important thing in life is to be kind. I would be horrified and appalled if he grew up to be even 1% as vulgar and classless as Trump. My brother and mother are both teachers and they would not allow kids in the classroom to behave in this way. And we are talking about kids without complete impulse control, and raging teenage hormones. If we expect, as we should, better from THEM, how can we tolerate having such a boorish, classless man of nearly 70 to lead the nation? Is it not embarrassing to you?

Say what you will of Obama's policies, but his behaviour, the 8 years of absolutely NO drama, were commendable.

Not always. How many times did he go out in front of the nation saying....The evil Republicans are to blame for me not getting what I want?

"If Congress won't act I have a pen and a phone." Remember that statement? I'd say that was a little childish.

I don't condone anything wrong the man has done. He's not perfect and I never once have said that. Neither was Obama. Neither was Bush. Neither was Clinton etc etc. I made my own choice based on the two options. If Johnson wasn't such a idiot I would have voted for Gary Johnson. I looked at Clinton and I didn't like anything she brought to the table. Trump I didn't like some of it but his platform of making America strong. Bringing back US jobs. Strengthening our military. That appealed to me.

I made a choice to vote for Trump. You can say it was wrong and call me an idiot etc etc but it was still my choice. I wasn't going to vote for someone who called me deplorable and beyond redemption....WTF did I do to get such hatred? Because I choose to question things. I did with a Democrat in office and I did it with a Republican in office.....I am not beholden to anyone or any one idea.....And neither should anyone else be.

 

[bloodysunday972]

Obama did use the word 'terrorism' just not at every turn of the corner. And yes the likes of Hannity and O'Reiley gave him flack, but given the fact that you believe it, we can take a guess at where you get your news

It was an odd choice of movie to make action figures from in the first place. Just because it was a time in our history doesn't mean it should be a toy. Do you want your child playing master and slave?

Holocaust action figures, assassinated president dolls, Japanese entrenchment camp games? Just part of history.

First off they were designed to be a collectors item. Hot Toys and quite a few companies make these aimed at teens and adults as collectors items. Second there have been countless dolls made of Lincoln, Kennedy etc etc so that argument is invalidated.

Third again did you miss the part where I called Fox news out with the rest of them.
Bill O Reilly said on the air you can go into a gun show and buy a machine gun or grenade launcher with no background check.....My head about exploded when I heard that. I contacted the show and never heard back. O Reilly is a stooge just like the rest of them. They report what they are told to report.

You don't burn a book because it says something you don't agree with. You don't destroy a doll because it was a propaganda tool. There are some horrible things from throughout history? Remember the puppets used in US elections? You had a black puppet used to show a slave.
Ever seen a doll with a Nazi uniform & little dagger or German tin soldiers? You don't destroy them because of what they symbolize you use them as a teaching tool. A reminder of what happens when we think with the masses and not as an individual.

Also I've maybe seen him once called it anywhere close to Radical Islamic terrorism. While we are talking about the news.....Why is it that when Trump does something its wrong but when they have tape of Obama saying similar from years ago or someone else it gets explained away or sidestepped?

The point I am trying to make is called a spade a spade. It doesn't matter which side it is....If they make the mistake you call them out on it.

 

[BVS]

First off they were designed to be a collectors item. Hot Toys and quite a few companies make these aimed at teens and adults as collectors items. Second there have been countless dolls made of Lincoln, Kennedy etc etc so that argument is invalidated.

I meant actually assassinated.

Ok, do you want your child collecting slaves? The point is how can you sit there and say no one should be offended by this? Can you imagine being Jewish and seeing a collectors Nazi camp with ovens and action figures? Just a part of history.

Why is it that when Trump does something its wrong but when they have tape of Obama saying similar from years ago or someone else it gets explained away or sidestepped?

That's easy: context.

The point I am trying to make is called a spade a spade. It doesn't matter which side it is....If they make the mistake you call them out on it.

I will, I always do, it's just so far your examples have been lacking.