Trump General Discussion VI

[Oregoropa]

The EU is on a decline with or without the American president

 

[anitram]

I think you know we're of the same mind on this one.

For sure.

I really don't care that people voted third party. I'm much more irritated by the millions who didn't even bother to vote. Though I suppose if they're so disengaged they're also likely totally uninformed so maybe not a loss at all.

 

[mama cass]

Awwwww but your mine.

ugh piss off

 

[gareth brown]

I've not really got any time for those who think there is nothing wrong whatsoever with American gun laws. It's a very special kind of stupid.

 

[bono_212]

And if I had voted Clinton? Certain elements would have told me I have no integrity which ironically liberals still say about me for voting Trump even begrudgingly.....So you cant win.

But you can. By not caring what other people think and voting your conscience, you can win.

All I know about you, now, is that either 1) You were OK with the things Trump said so you voted for him or 2) You were so scared what other people would think of you that you voted, and decided that the things that Trump said and did were acceptable enough to vote for him.

Either way, that makes me think less of you FAR more than I would have if you'd just voted third party.

 

[anitram]

And if I had voted Clinton? Certain elements would have told me I have no integrity which ironically liberals still say about me for voting Trump even begrudgingly.....So you cant win.

Look you don't have to justify your vote to anybody.

But you should not be surprised if most people who voted think that you tacitly approve of sexual assault, misogyny (hey there Megyn Kelly's bleeding vagina) and other similarly awful things.

 

[bloodysunday972]

What the hell do dead children have to do with music? You're not my friend if you think gun laws are something to be joked about, or are pleased with the gun laws in this country.

I can't stand it when people treat this shit like it's a game.

bono there is more to that argument then this. Remember Columbine? I do I was in middle school when it happened. A federal Assault Weapons ban was in place and it did nothing...NOTHING to stop what happened.

I know this is a discussion about Trump but it angers me so much that liberals cannot see more laws does absolutely NOTHING!

I wasn't joking about that and if you thought that I don't know what to say. I was trying to say I still consider you guys my friends even if we don't agree on things.

I am a Second amendment advocate on a state level here in CO but I am not blind to the fact some things need to change.....And its on multiple levels but more blind legislation is not the answer.

Sorry I didn't mean to get off base but this is something I am very passionate about. Not to the level of being one sided but I am passionate about the issue.

 

[LemonMelon]

I don't think Trump voters are racists, sexists or idiots.

I think Trump voters favorably weighed the value of a Trump victory against the strong potential of an administration full of racism, sexism and idiocy.

 

[bloodysunday972]

But you can. By not caring what other people think and voting your conscience, you can win.

All I know about you, now, is that either 1) You were OK with the things Trump said so you voted for him or 2) You were so scared what other people would think of you that you voted, and decided that the things that Trump said and did were acceptable enough to vote for him.

Either way, that makes me think less of you FAR more than I would have if you'd just voted third party.

No I didn't vote for Gary Johnson because he was far more clueless than either of the mainstream candidates and his VP was a joke. I made a choice like most Americans did. Clinton or Trump. I chose Trump. I don't regret it and I don't have to defend it.

I spent too many years trying to go with the crowd and it does nothing but take away your voice. I agreed on some of his policies and I disagreed on a lot of others but it was enough I agreed on to vote for him. And that is that.

 

[anitram]

I don't think Trump voters are racists, sexists or idiots.

I think Trump voters favorably weighed the value of a Trump victory against the strong potential of an administration full of racism, sexism and idiocy.

I think a good number of them are those things, and unabashedly so. But most are not.

As I said, they tacitly approve of the racism, sexism, idiocy, xenophobia, etc. Because in large part those things do not affect them directly so they're gambling on his policies of American dick swinging working out for them in the end (good luck) and choosing to be willfully blind to his offensive behaviour. That is their prerogative, but they did not have to vote the way they did. Now they don't like being accused of supporting ugliness...too bad.

 

[Oregoropa]

One of the tools a person in power will use against you is laughter and mockery?!?!

What kind of insane world do you want to live in?

It exists already. Putin is a master at using everything in his rhetorical toolbox.

 

[gareth brown]

what about the physical one? that tool he's got sat in the white house right now seems to be working out quite well for him.

 

[Bluer White]

No I didn't vote for Gary Johnson because he was far more clueless than either of the mainstream candidates and his VP was a joke.

Hey now, Bill Weld wasn't so bad

 

[bloodysunday972]

I've not really got any time for those who think there is nothing wrong whatsoever with American gun laws. It's a very special kind of stupid.

Gareth I don't know much about you but seeing where you come from I have to say there is a fine line between finding common ground to change things and going after a mosquito with a elephant gun which is what Australia did. I have a friend in NZ which while they do have strict gun laws they can still own them.....Even the so called evil ones if you have a collectors license.

Some countries in Europe have stricter laws but they are not Draconian.

The problem with this topic is neither side wants to budge and that is why no progress is ever made.

 

[bono_212]

bono there is more to that argument then this. Remember Columbine? I do I was in middle school when it happened. A federal Assault Weapons ban was in place and it did nothing...NOTHING to stop what happened.

I know this is a discussion about Trump but it angers me so much that liberals cannot see more laws does absolutely NOTHING!

I wasn't joking about that and if you thought that I don't know what to say. I was trying to say I still consider you guys my friends even if we don't agree on things.

I am a Second amendment advocate on a state level here in CO but I am not blind to the fact some things need to change.....And its on multiple levels but more blind legislation is not the answer.

Sorry I didn't mean to get off base but this is something I am very passionate about. Not to the level of being one sided but I am passionate about the issue.

You're not passionate enough about it to want to try and fix it though. Too bad. Why don't you talk to some Australians about gun control.

But let me guess, you think if one person dies by gun violence, that somehow means laws don't work. Hurray.

This is the MOST important topic to me, I'm pretty sure. Enough that I have ZERO motivation to speak to anyone who thinks this country doesn't need far more stringent gun control.

No I didn't vote for Gary Johnson because he was far more clueless than either of the mainstream candidates and his VP was a joke. I made a choice like most Americans did. Clinton or Trump. I chose Trump. I don't regret it and I don't have to defend it.

I spent too many years trying to go with the crowd and it does nothing but take away your voice. I agreed on some of his policies and I disagreed on a lot of others but it was enough I agreed on to vote for him. And that is that.

Nope, you don't have to defend it. You just have to deal with the fact that people like me believe you are OK with the level of discourse from Trump. If you weren't, you would have seen the danger in voting for him. You have to deal with that .

 

[bloodysunday972]

You're not passionate enough about it to want to try and fix it though. Too bad. Why don't you talk to some Australians about gun control.

But let me guess, you think if one person dies by gun violence, that somehow means laws don't work. Hurray.

This is the MOST important topic to me, I'm pretty sure. Enough that I have ZERO motivation to speak to anyone who thinks this country doesn't need far more stringent gun control.


Actually Bono I am in favor of stronger mental health checks/BG checks. But that is a hard one as well because then you get into anger from other elements who feel their privacy is being invaded......Again no progress.

I want to fix the problem but who is deciding what the problem is? If its the left I'm sorry the answer is no. I live in CO which still has to deal with feel good legislation passed in 2013 that 95% of LE will not enforce and even the sponsors of the damn bill didn't know what was in it.......

And I've already commented on Australia's so called solution to Gun control and once again it was insane....The fact Clinton said we need to look at the Australian model was one deciding factor why I voted for Trump.

CA's gun laws....Have they done anything to bring down the crime levels? Have NY? Have Chicago? You can pass all the damned laws you want but it doesn't solve the problem....

Its a discussion we will never have on a level ground.....Sadly.

 

[LemonMelon]

>A bunch of people died in a shooting...very sad

>Well, let's get rid of guns

>That won't work

>But other countries did it and it worked

>We have more guns, it's different

>So what do you want to do? Introduce more guns?

>I dunno...it could work, right? Maybe?

>It's morally reprehensible though

>

>

>Oh, did you hear what just happened on the news?

>What now?

>A bunch of people died in a shooting...very sad

>Well, let's get rid of guns

>That won't work

∞

 

[bloodysunday972]

Hey now, Bill Weld wasn't so bad

Weld wasn't on the ballot here....As far as I know. Johnson was

 

[bloodysunday972]

>A bunch of people died in a shooting...very sad

>Well, let's get rid of guns

>That won't work

>But other countries did it and it worked

>We have more guns, it's different

>So what do you want to do? Introduce more guns?

>I dunno...it could work, right? Maybe?

>It's morally reprehensible though

>

>

>Oh, did you hear what just happened on the news?

>What now?

>A bunch of people died in a shooting...very sad

>Well, let's get rid of guns

>That won't work

∞

You will hate me for this....But here it goes. We are different because the rest of the world it's a privilege and here its a right. Now that being said the Supreme Court did say that while the second amendment is a right there are some limits...I don't remember the exact wording and ironically it was a conservative judge who said this.

You have to find common ground to get there the problem is once again neither side gives an inch. Hell the no fly no buy list was a good idea until it was discovered how screwed up the no fly list is.......Sigh I dunno.

 

[BEAL]

yes, keeping peace in Europe, protecting worker rights, the environment, food, health, safety, shared scientific research, drug research, etc. etc. etc. etc. has been sooooo soooooo terrible

Also, it's been a really long time since a World War. I think the EU, despite some faults which will exist in EVERY FUCKING SYSTEM KNOWN TO MAN, has done a good job.

That's all unraveling now, so we'll get to see the other side of an independent Europe again.

 

[anitram]

Actually Bono I am in favor of stronger mental health checks/BG checks..

Today:

The House has voted to scrap an Obama administration regulation extending prohibitions on gun ownership to disabled social security recipients judged mentally incapable of managing their own affairs.

Great job, Republicans.

 

[bloodysunday972]

Today:



Great job, Republicans.

If you actually read the way that was put in place it was kinda BS.

They need to reform the no fly list rules and then push for the no fly no buy rule. If they could do that I'd be in favor of it but they have to reform it.

 

[Oregoropa]

Also, it's been a really long time since a World War. I think the EU, despite some faults which will exist in EVERY FUCKING SYSTEM KNOWN TO MAN, has done a good job.

That's all unraveling now, so we'll get to see the other side of an independent Europe again.

Members of the EU have pretty much de-fanged themselves militarily. The entitlement-state spending pretty much consumes all of their spending.

I can't think of any country v country beef within the EU that would lead to hostilities in coming years.

Greece and Turkey have some friction. But Turkey is not in the EU. Greece does try to build up its forces as a deterrent.

 

[gareth brown]

Gareth I don't know much about you but seeing where you come from I have to say there is a fine line between finding common ground to change things and going after a mosquito with a elephant gun which is what Australia did. I have a friend in NZ which while they do have strict gun laws they can still own them.....Even the so called evil ones if you have a collectors license.

Some countries in Europe have stricter laws but they are not Draconian.

Well for a start I'm from the UK, just living over here for a year.
Call it going after a mosquito with an elephant gun, but surely you can't argue it hasn't been effective??

I certainly wouldn't call it draconian, the results totally justify it, as they do in the UK.

If you consider it draconian to clamp down on firearms to make sure something like Port Arthur doesn't happen again, then I don't know what to tell you.

The problem with this topic is neither side wants to budge and that is why no progress is ever made.

Someone here (or the person they were quoting) summed it up pretty well a while ago when they said that as soon as pro-gun Americans made it perfectly clear that the shooting of small children is acceptable if it means you get to keep your guns then there's no hope of getting through to them. So really I don't blame anti-gun people not budging on the other side or not even bothering trying to get through to the pro-gun lot with any sort of sense..

 

[mama cass]

Bi-Lateral Trade Agreements are the cornerstone of Trumpsim and the new populism.

how long does it take to draw those up then?

 

[dabiggestu2fan]

So maybe u2's new song called earth 2020 from the solar album may be about how we get rid of this big monster as the earth unites to defeat this monster called trump in 2020. Anyway sorry not a place for jokes I know!

 

[bono_212]

Actually Bono I am in favor of stronger mental health checks/BG checks. But that is a hard one as well because then you get into anger from other elements who feel their privacy is being invaded......Again no progress.

I don't care how they feel, how about that? Just like I don't give two fucks how a parent feels about not vaccinating their kid. We all live together, and guess what: You're not a special snowflake who gets to inflict violence upon other people or bring diseases back from the dead just because you FEEL like it.

I want to fix the problem but who is deciding what the problem is? If its the left I'm sorry the answer is no. I live in CO which still has to deal with feel good legislation passed in 2013 that 95% of LE will not enforce and even the sponsors of the damn bill didn't know what was in it.......

Feel good? What are you even talking about.

And I've already commented on Australia's so called solution to Gun control and once again it was insane....The fact Clinton said we need to look at the Australian model was one deciding factor why I voted for Trump.

You think it's insane, but I don't see any mass shootings there .

CA's gun laws....Have they done anything to bring down the crime levels? Have NY? Have Chicago? You can pass all the damned laws you want but it doesn't solve the problem....

California: Did tough gun control laws cut firearms deaths? | MSNBC

I'll let Headache speak on New York, because I don't know.

As for Chicago....I just feel like I'm walking into a wall at this point: Chicago Gun laws can not and WILL NOT work as long as Indiana's stay as lax as they are. Period. End of story. IT WILL NOT Change. Indiana is making things worse for Chicago by not changing.

Its a discussion we will never have on a level ground.....Sadly.

Because you are selfish.


ALSO FOR THE LOVE OF GOD YOU NEED THE END BRACKET QUOTE TO FINISH A QUOTE good Lord.

 

[BVS]

Um you do realize if I voted third party or stayed at home I would still be attacked by liberals? So its lose lose lose. I didn't pick your choice so I am your enemy.

This is hands down your most inane post yet, it's as if you didn't read a single word, but you just had to find a way to play victim.

 

[gareth brown]

I don't care how they feel, how about that? Just like I don't give two fucks how a parent feels about not vaccinating their kid. We all live together, and guess what: You're not a special snowflake who gets to inflict violence upon other people or bring diseases back from the dead just because you FEEL like it.

 

[bloodysunday972]

Bono on the quote thing I dunno what to tell you. The last time I checked in here was in 2008.....The board went through an upgrade since I was last here.

What I mean by feel good legislation is when a tragedy happens legislation is hastily put together and rushed through people are reacting on emotion that is why its called feel good legislation and its almost always a disaster. You don't live in CO so you don't know what I am talking about but in 2013 they rammed through a magazine ban that was so poorly written LE said they would not touch it because the burden of proof was all on them to show you broke the law......So it set them up for wrongful arrest lawsuits. The co sponsor of the bill was asked later about the wording of the bill and her response was "I don't know whats in the bill." YOU DON'T KNOW? LADY YOU CO SPONSORED THE DAMNED THING!

You keep saying well Australia doesn't have a problem now........WRONG! The problem is the black market and believe it or not criminal elements making machine guns out of garages. A lot of early Sub machine guns were made from tubing.....Plain old garden variety metal tubing. So once again criminals are showing their lack of care about the law.

The problem of Gun control is our system is different than everyone else in the world....Its right vs privilege and you can argue that till you are blue in the face it still doesn't change the fact that it has been decided from the highest court in the land.....Clinton has said repeatedly Heller vs DC was wrong and then she backpeddled and said it was handled wrong.

I call the Australian model insane because you cannot punish law abiding people for the acts of one crazy person....You have to do something but you can't punish everyone in the process.....Yes the world would be better in a world with no guns but guess what that will never happen.

You said you don't care but again there are privacy laws which govern release of peoples personal information. A standard background check for purchasing a gun asks things like. Have you ever renounced your citizenship? Have you ever had a dishonorable discharge? Etc etc. There are parts that talk about mental health but its pretty basic. If you lie on those forms? Its a felony offense and if the BG check comes back denied you will be arrested. Now that does take care of the criminal element but what about mental health? How can a background check determine if someone is mentally ill? It can't....Not right now anyways.

And I am not selfish....Contrary to popular belief a lot of us on the pro gun side are willing to find compromise but we are not going to roll over and submit because some view our side as extreme. And California has some of the strictest gun control in the nation but it's not enough? Every session they push for more and more....When is enough enough?

There has been a consorted effort for another Assault Weapons ban. The last ban didn't work and even the FBI said it did nothing to curtail crime so you want to reintroduce a piece of legislation that didn't do what it was put in place to do?....Why because you don't like how certain guns look? The original ban didn't even ban the damn guns it banned the cosmetic features.....Because "OH GOD IT LOOKS LIKE A MACHINE GUN!"

Does that really make sense? Banning types of guns because of how they look?