Trump General Discussion VI

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bloodysunday972 said:
The left has to stop being petulant little children and realize we are in this together....
Click to expand...

Oh here we go with the kumbaya.

NO.

WE are not in it together. You white, straight, Christian men maybe are. Not the grabbed pussies (you can do anything you want to them if you're famous), not the Mexicans (drug dealers, criminals, rapists and bad hombres), not the disabled (with their flailing arms), not the overweight women (get on a treadmill and be publicly humiliated), not the Jews (apparently he thinks Shylock is real as he wants only men wearing yarmulkes counting his money), the Muslims (they want to kill us all), not the refugees (they also want to kill us), etc.

So it's really rich coming from a person in a position of privilege to tell the rest of us who are wearing bulls-eyes to COME TOGETHER instead of telling that freak show that you voted in to be a uniter and a president to all instead of the vulgarian that he is.

Sorry, we won't forget what you voted for and what you are tacitly approving.
 
bloodysunday972 said:
No just pointing out he is keeping his promises. Most politicians don't. Doesn't make them all right but he is keeping them
Click to expand...
So I'm to applaud him for keeping a promise that could financial bankrupt the country. Good to know.

Oh I'm also supposed to applaud him for not treating the LGBT community like second-class citizens, too. Awesome.

I told the rest of you what was going to come of believing that EO leak. Now Trump's a damn hero. SMH.
 
WE are not in it together. You white, straight, Christian men maybe are.

So in the first sentence of your post you are already being racist? Funny I seem to be in the minority here but I don't see skin color. We are all good people discussing a subject.....You seem to be the one bringing race into it.

Since we are on a music board I cant help but think of another song from a band I love and the lyrics go quite well here.

I am no better and neither are you
We are the same whatever we do
You love me you hate me you know me and then
You can't figure out the bag I'm in
 
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bloodysunday972 said:
WE are not in it together. You white, straight, Christian men maybe are.

So in the first sentence of your post you are already being racist? Funny I seem to be in the minority here but I don't see skin color. We are all good people discussing a subject.....You seem to be the one bringing race into it.
Click to expand...

Shocking that a white man doesn't see colour. Also shocking that you can't put yourself in the shoes of a minority.

And for heaven's sake if you're going to throw baseless accusations at me, at least get it right. Those were the 3rd and 4th sentences of my post.
 
Ah, he edited. Now it's even better. "I don't see color". :love:.

Now I'm guessing bloodysunday is one of those people that tells POC, women, LGBT peoples, etc how they should feel about things too, huh? Cause he doesn't see color :love:.
 
Ashley, thanks for the comment on the Prayer Breakfast. I have to admit I've never paid attention to this event so I am not familiar with it, though I am able to gather through common sense that his speech was ridiculous. Especially in light of the fact that he has a grieving family of a Navy SEAL - wouldn't it be appropriate to begin by offering prayer for this man and his family and friends instead of boasting about his ratings vs. Arnold's? It baffles the mind. Worse yet are the allegedly religious people who live in a state of delusion that this man has any spirituality within him.

I still don't know why this event exists in the sense that it strikes me as not particularly inclusive but rather something for Christians, which I guess makes sense historically but these days? Or is it actually an interfaith sort of event?
 
I love it when new conservative posters become active on FYM, it feels like such a major FYM event until you realise their beliefs are essentially identical to other FYM conservatives before them.
 
anitram said:
Shocking that a white man doesn't see colour. Also shocking that you can't put yourself in the shoes of a minority.

And for heaven's sake if you're going to throw baseless accusations at me, at least get it right. Those were the 3rd and 4th sentences of my post.
Click to expand...

Oh dear so its not racism if someone of another color says it to a white person?
To me you are the one coming across as racist....Oh I'm white I guess I should check my privilege next?:wink:

And actually Bono I respect everyone's opinions but I won't keep mine to myself because one side doesn't like it. That is what a debate is......It's two sided.

Oh and a little about myself.
I come from a family of Polish & Irish immigrants. Both grandparents fought in WW2. My grandfather on my mothers side spent time in both India & Africa as a teacher. My grandmother was in the diplomat core so on my moms side they are more a mixture of conservative & liberal. My dad was born here and an Army vet. He was an old school Dem who loved Harry Truman. I am bringing these points up so you know a little about the person you are judging.

Yes if you have to bring race into it I am a white boy and I'm not ashamed of it...Why should I be? Does that make me less of a person or do my views mean less because I'm not of a different color?

I believe everyone has a right to be heard. Its what makes this country what it needs to be. We wouldn't be the melting pot we are today if we didn't. Every culture brings something to the table but it's very close minded to think one persons voice matters more over another.
 
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anitram said:
Ashley, thanks for the comment on the Prayer Breakfast. I have to admit I've never paid attention to this event so I am not familiar with it, though I am able to gather through common sense that his speech was ridiculous. Especially in light of the fact that he has a grieving family of a Navy SEAL - wouldn't it be appropriate to begin by offering prayer for this man and his family and friends instead of boasting about his ratings vs. Arnold's? It baffles the mind. Worse yet are the allegedly religious people who live in a state of delusion that this man has any spirituality within him.

I still don't know why this event exists in the sense that it strikes me as not particularly inclusive but rather something for Christians, which I guess makes sense historically but these days? Or is it actually an interfaith sort of event?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I get what you're saying, it's in effect a Christian event, but it's meant to be something along those lines, as well, or at least it has been lately.

Per Wiki, for some insight into the way people feel about it:

Reaction

Rev. Jim Wallis, founder and president of the Christian social change group Sojourners and a regular attendee of the National Prayer Breakfast, said of the event "it's sort of a time to — where people want to acknowledge the importance of prayer and faith. And that can be kind of a civil religion, civic faith kind of common denominator thing. Or it can be much too sectarian where some people feel left out of it. I remember my favorite ones are when Bono spoke at the prayer breakfast and talked about every faith tradition calls us to stand with those who are left out, left behind. I remember Senator Mark Hatfield spoke years ago when I was in seminary and he called the war in Vietnam a national sin and shame in front of Richard Nixon and Henry Kissinger. I saw their faces and they weren't happy with that. So when it can raise up issues that we ought to be accountable to, whether we are religious or not, I think that's when it's probably at its best."[16]


In 2010, Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington asked President Barack Obama and Congressional leaders to refrain from attending the National Prayer Breakfast. Executive Director Melanie Sloan criticized the organizing group, The Fellowship, for being what she described as intolerant and secretive.[17]
Click to expand...
 
Vlad n U 2 said:
I love it when new conservative posters become active on FYM, it feels like such a major FYM event until you realise their beliefs are essentially identical to other FYM conservatives before them.
Click to expand...

I know, I felt myself deflating as the day has gone on. I was so looking forward to someone who had something new to offer the discussion. Ohhhh well.
 
bloodysunday972 said:
No just pointing out he is keeping his promises. Most politicians don't. Doesn't make them all right but he is keeping them
Click to expand...

Raising the bar in one aspect so he can get away with lowering the bar in all others.

That's our dealmaker prez in action.
 
bono_212 said:
I know, I felt myself deflating as the day has gone on. I was so looking forward to someone who had something new to offer the discussion. Ohhhh well.
Click to expand...

Bono if you feel my responses were not you your liking I'm sorry. If you want to ask me other views I'd be happy to answer them for you. You guys ask me about Trump as that is the subject. I've given you how I feel on it.....Time will tell. Can't really give you more then that.

I'm not a Trump fan who voted for him because its Donald Trump. I voted for him because Clinton didn't represent me. If they had ran Bernie? Eh maybe I would have considered it.

But Clinton? No.
 
So I woke up today looking at the Australian PM and Mexican President exchanges with Trump and was like Woah !!! Then I remembered who Trump is and found his exchanges utterly fascinating.

Let's revisit Trump. The outside candidate who took down 16 GOP candidates. Hillary Clinton and the DNC machine with a billion dollar warchest.

Trump is a masterful negotiator who views negotiation for what it is . Its about Power, Projection, and is an artform.

My takeaway from today is that Trump knows exactly what he is doing. He knows right where to apply pressure to weaknesses in negotiation.

Quick thought experiment: Tomorrow imagine if you went to your boss at work to ask for a raise. What leverage do you have to get what you want? You and your boss may be friends, but when you enter into the battle-dance of negotiation that goes out the window. One of the powerful tools a person in power will use against you is laughter, and even mockery.

In a former job I had leverage to renegotiate a contract based upon knowing my value and knowing I was the only employee with a certification vital to the company. It was an entry level job on a 3 year contract, and by patiently playing the game over 5 weeks I was able to double my original contract for another 3 year period (A quick read book called "You Can Negotiate Anything" was a huge help)

My co-worker who was in a different role went into to negotiate a raise with the same boss ahead of his contractual window. The boss laughed at him. Opened a book and pointed out the industry standard salary with his finger and said he would get nothing. My buddy was deflated and instantly lost any standing he thought he had (he had nothing) It was an emotional knee-jerk.

Trump is choosing to use this tactic. He dispatched Jeb Bush in record time by calling him "Low Energy". It was the kiss of death. His negative branding on the field of campaign battle was extremely effective. Cruz and him got along for a while, until they became competitors. After Iowa, "Lyin" Ted was labeled. Cruz, a skillful orator in his own right (terrible with jokes) was no match for Trump. Then we got "Crooked Hillary". Trump's opponents were fighting the last war and they lost big league.

Just recently Mark Cuban sent out a tweet directed to Democrats basically saying you are dealing with a negotiator in chief. "See what you can get for providing a smooth confirmation for his appointees. Don't try to treat him like a standard politician . . . How did that work out for you in the election?"

Just like with Jeb and Company. Trump is living rent-free in some of his adversaries heads. Chuck Schumer is trying to jockey as the leader of the resistance. Notoriously vicious from making fun of tourists in the Capitol (just yesterday) to calling a flight attendant a bitch in front of the masses, he has set himself up as the perfect Arch-Nemesis to Trump. He looks out of central casting as cartoonish batman villain, and funnily is the perfect caricature of big-government resistance to Populist reform. His affinity for the camera tees him up to get slammed by Trump daily.

I think he has President Nieto in a pickle as well. One of the biggest special interests in Mexico is the drug cartel. Nieto would not be in power without being propped up and being leveraged by the cartel. Trump is hitting his pressure point on the cartel influence. Using a hyperbolic comparison of Military readiness to take on the cartel, is signaling to Nieto that he is fucked from a negotiating standpoint. When Nieto does have to bend the knee, he may be placing a call to Trump to help get him and his family out of the country.

(Bear in mind attacking the Cartel, who's main cash cow is to funnel heroin into the USA, is a winning issue for Trump. In a time when Heroin overdoses are in the public view, affecting so many American families it is a real issue that translates into support for Trumps Wall)

I know in the past I made a statement that Trump won on issues that don't personally affect personal experiences. I want to take this opportunity to emphasize with the experience of Anitram as a refugee, and Diemen's connection to a friend sponsoring a refugee family. I get caught up arguing nuts and bolts. Don't mean to come across as cold.

What I find fascinating is the muscular negotiating tactics he is using with Mexico and Australia serves a secondary purpose. It is showing his metal to Vladimir Putin, Xi Jin Ping, the Iranian Mullahs, Erdogan and the other type one personality leaders on the big stage. They are watching intently. Obama took a softer approach, and it had real world consequences. The Russians took Crimea and China started building artificial Islands in the South China Sea to secure oil claims.

The firing of acting AG Yates is a mini-PATCO moment when Reagan torched the air traffic controllers early in his first term. It was at that moment that the Soviets knew they were dealing with a formidable opponent.

Trump has reshuffled the world order in 2 weeks. His election and Brexit is propelling the Populist pushback against the European Union experiment. I wouldn't be surprised if the EU dissolves by 2020. It will be known as a technocratic experiment in which Europe tried to counter-balance the US economically at the end of the Cold War. The centralized government could not properly service the citizenry of the collective nation-states.
 
anitram said:
Oh here we go with the kumbaya.

NO.

WE are not in it together. You white, straight, Christian men maybe are. Not the grabbed pussies (you can do anything you want to them if you're famous), not the Mexicans (drug dealers, criminals, rapists and bad hombres), not the disabled (with their flailing arms), not the overweight women (get on a treadmill and be publicly humiliated), not the Jews (apparently he thinks Shylock is real as he wants only men wearing yarmulkes counting his money), the Muslims (they want to kill us all), not the refugees (they also want to kill us), etc.

So it's really rich coming from a person in a position of privilege to tell the rest of us who are wearing bulls-eyes to COME TOGETHER instead of telling that freak show that you voted in to be a uniter and a president to all instead of the vulgarian that he is.

Sorry, we won't forget what you voted for and what you are tacitly approving.
Click to expand...

like x infinity to the power of infinity
 
bloodysunday972 said:
Oh dear so its not racism if someone of another color says it to a white person?
To me you are the one coming across as racist....Oh I'm white I guess I should check my privilege next?:wink:
Click to expand...

I don't think you understand my point at all.

You want everyone to come together around the President.

Who is a man who had denigrated, insulted, sexually assaulted, slandered and threatened people who belong to various minority groups.

A man who seems to exclusively see colour and gender.

So now you seem to think that it is incumbent on members of those minority groups who feel afraid and unsafe in their own skin and their own nation to COME TOGETHER instead of demanding that this man-child start behaving like a dignified adult.

That's really insulting. You voted for him. You tacitly approve of him groping women, walking into change rooms to ogle naked minor girls, slandering various minorities and an entire world religion, and so on. A vote = tacit approval. You may not like it, but fact's a fact. You did not find ANY of these things objectionable enough to withhold your vote. Nobody said you had to vote for Hillary instead. You chose to support him. Now you get to live with more than half the country thinking that you're no better than him. Sucks, eh?
 
bloodysunday972 said:
Oh dear so its not racism if someone of another color says it to a white person?
To me you are the one coming across as racist....Oh I'm white I guess I should check my privilege next?:wink:

And actually Bono I respect everyone's opinions but I won't keep mine to myself because one side doesn't like it. That is what a debate is......It's two sided.

Oh and a little about myself.
I come from a family of Polish & Irish immigrants. Both grandparents fought in WW2. My grandfather on my mothers side spent time in both India & Africa as a teacher. My grandmother was in the diplomat core so on my moms side they are more a mixture of conservative & liberal. My dad was born here and an Army vet. He was an old school Dem who loved Harry Truman. I am bringing these points up so you know a little about the person you are judging.

Yes if you have to bring race into it I am a white boy and I'm not ashamed of it...Why should I be? Does that make me less of a person or do my views mean less because I'm not of a different color?

I believe everyone has a right to be heard. Its what makes this country what it needs to be. We wouldn't be the melting pot we are today if we didn't. Every culture brings something to the table but it's very close minded to think one persons voice matters more over another.
Click to expand...
What's with the Polish Trump fans on here? Oregoropa mentions he's from a Polish area in his bio.
 
Oregoropa said:
Trump has reshuffled the world order in 2 weeks. His election and Brexit is propelling the Populist pushback against the European Union experiment. I wouldn't be surprised if the EU dissolves by 2020. It will be known as a technocratic experiment in which Europe tried to counter-balance the US economically at the end of the Cold War. The centralized government could not properly service the citizenry of the collective nation-states.
Click to expand...

why are you out to attack Europe all of a sudden, undermining 70 years of foreign policy?

and no, no he hasn't

don't you realise, we are all uniting against him? Europe, China, Japan, Australia, etc. are already working on closer ties seeing as Trump wants the US to be an island
 
anitram said:
I don't think you understand my point at all.

You want everyone to come together around the President.

Who is a man who had denigrated, insulted, sexually assaulted, slandered and threatened people who belong to various minority groups.

A man who seems to exclusively see colour and gender.

So now you seem to think that it is incumbent on members of those minority groups who feel afraid and unsafe in their own skin and their own nation to COME TOGETHER instead of demanding that this man-child start behaving like a dignified adult.

That's really insulting. You voted for him. You tacitly approve of him groping women, walking into change rooms to ogle naked minor girls, slandering various minorities and an entire world religion, and so on. A vote = tacit approval. You may not like it, but fact's a fact. You did not find ANY of these things objectionable enough to withhold your vote. Nobody said you had to vote for Hillary instead. You chose to support him. Now you get to live with more than half the country thinking that you're no better than him. Sucks, eh?
Click to expand...

Um you do realize if I voted third party or stayed at home I would still be attacked by liberals? So its lose lose lose. I didn't pick your choice so I am your enemy.
 
Oregoropa said:
So I woke up today looking at the Australian PM and Mexican President exchanges with Trump and was like Woah !!! Then I remembered who Trump is and found his exchanges utterly fascinating.

Let's revisit Trump. The outside candidate who took down 16 GOP candidates. Hillary Clinton and the DNC machine with a billion dollar warchest.

Trump is a masterful negotiator who views negotiation for what it is . Its about Power, Projection, and is an artform.

My takeaway from today is that Trump knows exactly what he is doing. He knows right where to apply pressure to weaknesses in negotiation.

Quick thought experiment: Tomorrow imagine if you went to your boss at work to ask for a raise. What leverage do you have to get what you want? You and your boss may be friends, but when you enter into the battle-dance of negotiation that goes out the window. One of the powerful tools a person in power will use against you is laughter, and even mockery.

In a former job I had leverage to renegotiate a contract based upon knowing my value and knowing I was the only employee with a certification vital to the company. It was an entry level job on a 3 year contract, and by patiently playing the game over 5 weeks I was able to double my original contract for another 3 year period (A quick read book called "You Can Negotiate Anything" was a huge help)

My co-worker who was in a different role went into to negotiate a raise with the same boss ahead of his contractual window. The boss laughed at him. Opened a book and pointed out the industry standard salary with his finger and said he would get nothing. My buddy was deflated and instantly lost any standing he thought he had (he had nothing) It was an emotional knee-jerk.

Trump is choosing to use this tactic. He dispatched Jeb Bush in record time by calling him "Low Energy". It was the kiss of death. His negative branding on the field of campaign battle was extremely effective. Cruz and him got along for a while, until they became competitors. After Iowa, "Lyin" Ted was labeled. Cruz, a skillful orator in his own right (terrible with jokes) was no match for Trump. Then we got "Crooked Hillary". Trump's opponents were fighting the last war and they lost big league.

Just recently Mark Cuban sent out a tweet directed to Democrats basically saying you are dealing with a negotiator in chief. "See what you can get for providing a smooth confirmation for his appointees. Don't try to treat him like a standard politician . . . How did that work out for you in the election?"

Just like with Jeb and Company. Trump is living rent-free in some of his adversaries heads. Chuck Schumer is trying to jockey as the leader of the resistance. Notoriously vicious from making fun of tourists in the Capitol (just yesterday) to calling a flight attendant a bitch in front of the masses, he has set himself up as the perfect Arch-Nemesis to Trump. He looks out of central casting as cartoonish batman villain, and funnily is the perfect caricature of big-government resistance to Populist reform. His affinity for the camera tees him up to get slammed by Trump daily.

I think he has President Nieto in a pickle as well. One of the biggest special interests in Mexico is the drug cartel. Nieto would not be in power without being propped up and being leveraged by the cartel. Trump is hitting his pressure point on the cartel influence. Using a hyperbolic comparison of Military readiness to take on the cartel, is signaling to Nieto that he is fucked from a negotiating standpoint. When Nieto does have to bend the knee, he may be placing a call to Trump to help get him and his family out of the country.

(Bear in mind attacking the Cartel, who's main cash cow is to funnel heroin into the USA, is a winning issue for Trump. In a time when Heroin overdoses are in the public view, affecting so many American families it is a real issue that translates into support for Trumps Wall)

I know in the past I made a statement that Trump won on issues that don't personally affect personal experiences. I want to take this opportunity to emphasize with the experience of Anitram as a refugee, and Diemen's connection to a friend sponsoring a refugee family. I get caught up arguing nuts and bolts. Don't mean to come across as cold.

What I find fascinating is the muscular negotiating tactics he is using with Mexico and Australia serves a secondary purpose. It is showing his metal to Vladimir Putin, Xi Jin Ping, the Iranian Mullahs, Erdogan and the other type one personality leaders on the big stage. They are watching intently. Obama took a softer approach, and it had real world consequences. The Russians took Crimea and China started building artificial Islands in the South China Sea to secure oil claims.

The firing of acting AG Yates is a mini-PATCO moment when Reagan torched the air traffic controllers early in his first term. It was at that moment that the Soviets knew they were dealing with a formidable opponent.

Trump has reshuffled the world order in 2 weeks. His election and Brexit is propelling the Populist pushback against the European Union experiment. I wouldn't be surprised if the EU dissolves by 2020. It will be known as a technocratic experiment in which Europe tried to counter-balance the US economically at the end of the Cold War. The centralized government could not properly service the citizenry of the collective nation-states.
Click to expand...
One of the tools a person in power will use against you is laughter and mockery?!?!

What kind of insane world do you want to live in?
 
mama cass said:
don't you realise, we are all uniting against him? Europe, China, Japan, Australia, etc. are already working on closer ties seeing as Trump wants the US to be an island
Click to expand...

Europe is fracturing. Populist uprisings are ready to pull apart the fabric of Europe. Brexit and Trump's election are a shot of adrenaline into these movements. If anything the people of Europe are uniting around Trumpism.
 
Oregoropa said:
The EU is a post Cold-War experiment. Noble in purpose, but poorly executed. We are seeing UK-First, France-First, Poland-First.

We are watching history unfold.
Click to expand...

One thing I don't agree with is opening up with Russia too much. Putin Annexing the Crimea without so much as a blink from us apart from sanctions is a little disheartening. I am glad to see Poland taking the threat seriously.

I am not advocating military action against Russia but they are not our buddies and they never have been.
 
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