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Old 01-05-2017, 09:57 AM   #46
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I expected some sort of unhinged ranting in that video but honestly what was so offensive about it?

Look, I think that it must suck to be a white male who is a decent person and who supports the rights of minorities and is an inclusive individual and productive member of society in general. I don't doubt that there are white men who understand that they were born on third (not that they hit a triple). But there appear to be many like Oregoropa who are seemingly MUCH more bothered by being told not to mansplain and by being accused of not having enough empathy to understand the plight of those who are not like him than they are by decades and centuries of oppression, prejudice, bigotry and lost opportunity that racialized communities, women, gays, etc have felt. He spends much more time talking about "poor outreach" to white men than he does about the legitimate social ills faced by minority groups. It's pretty offensive when you think about it but this appears to be the essence of the current-day Republican right in the US - changing the conversation until it is they who are actually the victims.




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Old 01-05-2017, 11:06 AM   #47
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Since we are on the topic of Mansplaining, was wondering if everybody had a chance to see MTV's 2017 New Year's Resolutions for White Guys. Viral Video that got posted to the web by MTV and received unbelievable backlash.

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Old 01-05-2017, 11:22 AM   #48
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The President Elect is quoting Assange and discussing intelligence briefings on his Twitter account.

#whattheeverlivingfuck


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And now he's pissed that the media says he agrees with Assange.

#fullblownfuckingidiot


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Old 01-05-2017, 12:13 PM   #49
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the "optics" of that are not good, and it's a big reason as to why Hillary lost. no doubt about it.



just because certain phrases or philosophies don't sell well in certain counties don't make them any less true.

Exactly. It would be one thing if this election was in part a result of "yes, we're aware there are serious issues with race in this country, but we think we have a better way of approaching it." Instead we got "we don't like hearing that there is a problem, and IF there is one, it's grossly exaggerated, so we'd rather just stop hearing about it."
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Old 01-05-2017, 02:59 PM   #50
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I am not saying that you aren't able to participate in the conversation but to make broadly sweeping statements that racism is overstated when you AT NO POINT IN YOUR LIFE experienced it really does take a lot of chutzpah.
I agree with everything you said, but I think the use of "chutzpah" almost gives the impression that this is a bold thing to do. I would instead use "lack of empathy". To deny the experiences of others in the manner that some do requires such a lack of empathy that is almost pathological.
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Old 01-05-2017, 05:06 PM   #51
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glorified.

hyperbole.
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Old 01-05-2017, 06:24 PM   #52
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So Pam Bondi, who if you don't remember is the AG who dropped the Trump University case and somehow got a "donation" from Trump(actually one of his charities), may now have a job in Washington DC. Well isn't that interesting...

The swamp rises, but what's more concerning is that MTV is making videos that hurt working class white men.
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Old 01-05-2017, 06:41 PM   #53
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Trump General Discussion IV: Unpresidented! Very sad!

omfg. the is strong with these people.



i have no sympathy. none. not anymore.





Quote:

How nostalgia for white Christian America drove so many Americans to vote for Trump

By Sarah Pulliam Bailey January 5 at 7:00 AM





MOUNT AIRY, N.C. — From a perch on Main Street, the home town of actor Andy Griffith looks this day like it was plucked right out of the television show that bears his name. And it was.



Residents and tourists from far-flung states mill along the thoroughfare, past the quaint low-slung shops made of Mount Airy’s famous white granite and named, like Floyd’s City Barber Shop, for references in “The Andy Griffith Show,” the folksy comedy set in the idyllic fictional small town of Mayberry that first aired in 1960.



And yet even as this city of about 10,000 nestled in the Blue Ridge Mountains fills its coffers by selling nostalgia, many of its residents would agree with the now-popular saying “We’re not in Mayberry anymore.”



If only the real Mount Airy, which has experienced decades of economic and social decline, were like the Mayberry facade, muses Mayor David Rowe. If only his city and the rest of America could return to the 1950s again.



“Now it’s about secular progressivism, not the values you get out of this book,” like honesty and hard work, said Rowe, 72, jabbing his finger at the leather Bible on his office desk.



But as Donald Trump prepares to move into the White House, Rowe and many of his constituents are hoping for a return to the past.



“We’re going to hold him to it,” said Brad Thomas, 42, who used to work as an engineer building turbine blades for power plants before his job was moved to Mexico.



A yearning for an earlier time, especially prevalent in rural American towns and cities like Mount Airy, helped spur white evangelical Christians to vote overwhelmingly for Donald Trump. For these voters, the desire for change also could be viewed as a desire to change back, to what they perceive as a more wholesome and prosperous time, when high-paying manufacturing jobs were plentiful, white Protestants were indisputably in charge and same-sex marriage and the Black Lives Matter movement were unthinkable.



Seventy-four percent of white evangelicals believe American culture has mostly changed for the worse since the 1950s — more than any other group of Americans — compared with 56 percent of all whites, according to a 2016 survey by the Public Religion Research Institute. In sharp contrast, 62 percent of African Americans and 57 percent of Hispanic Americans think the culture has changed for the better, the survey said.



With his promise to “Make America Great Again,” Trump appealed directly to this sense of dispossession, and 81 percent of white evangelicals voted for him, according to exit polls.



“You think back to the 1990s, and conservative Christians could throw around the phrase ‘moral majority,’ and there was a kernel of truth to that,” said Robert P. Jones, CEO at PRRI and author of “The End of White Christian America.” “Even in 2008, they could say the country is on our side on [same-sex marriage], and that’s changed so quickly in this last decade. The election hit on fundamental questions about what America is and should be.”



Tourism isn’t enough



Scissors the size of gardening shears hang from a coat rack in the mayor’s office. They are reserved for Rowe’s primary job of cutting ribbons, he said, and have been used a lot downtown, where just a few empty storefronts remain on Main Street. An old-fashioned sheriff’s squad car drives tourists for $35, stopping at local favorites and ending at Andy Griffith’s childhood home.



Visitors to Surry County spent $116.62 million in 2015, compared with $66 million 12 years ago, according to Jessica Icenhour Roberts, who heads tourism partnerships for the county, whose largest city is Mount Airy.



But Mount Airy cannot live on tourism alone, the mayor said.



“We try to live the good old days, but it’s hard,” Rowe said. Just down the street from a bronze statue of Griffith and a museum dedicated to his memory, out of sight of the boutiques selling Norman Rockwell and Thomas Kinkade artwork, sit many dilapidated textile mills that have closed in the past decade. From early 2000 to about 2010, about 9,000 private-sector jobs were lost when factories that made clothes went overseas.



Three of the economic pillars symbolized on the city seal — tobacco leaves, a chair representing furniture makers, a spool of yarn for the textile mills — are largely relics of the past. Now, granite is really the only thing left, the mayor said. The city is home to the world’s largest open-face granite quarry, which continues to provide a boost to the economy and has earned Mount Airy the moniker of “The Granite City.”



Despite the steady stream of tourists, business owners are still struggling to create new jobs that will attract a younger generation, said Lizzie Morrison, 30, who runs an art studio and is the Main Street coordinator with Mount Airy Downtown.



Morrison said the city’s younger residents tend to be socially liberal, while most in the older generations look to the past. That tension makes it harder for someone like her to push for new ideas, she said.



“You deal with a lot of white middle-aged men who might call you ‘Sweetie’ and belittle you a little bit,” she said. “It’s interesting to navigate that in a small community in trying to create jobs and be taken seriously.”




A group of developers has been working on a project to redevelop an old mill, Morrison said, but the proposal has moved slowly because of resistance from residents. Similarly, Vann McCoy, who runs a whiskey shop called Mayberry Spirits, said that residents recently opposed a traffic roundabout because there is no traffic circle visible on “The Andy Griffith Show.”



Meanwhile, some residents said they are having a hard time finding the kind of skilled manufacturing jobs available in the past.



Thomas, who blames the loss of his $75,000-a-year factory job on Obama, now makes $18,000 working in his friend’s gun store and pawnshop. He is hopeful Trump will bring jobs back.




His colleague, Dreama Staples, 53, said people are bringing in their prized possessions to sell so they can buy groceries and gas. At 4.8 percent, the unemployment rate in Surry County is similar to the national figure, but Staples said that finding full-time work with benefits is difficult. She said she has grown angry over what she considers government overreach.



“We’re losing control of our freedoms,” Staples said. “The government was taking away our rights. Taxes are higher, our jobs are gone, and it just feels less Christian.”




Memories at odds with facts



Many Mount Airy residents applauded the president-elect’s promise to revoke the Johnson Amendment, which effectively bars pastors from endorsing a candidate from the pulpit, Rowe said. They were heartened by his suggestion that Christians will be able to once again see “Merry Christmas” signs in department stores.



But the mayor acknowledges that the 1950s and ’60s were not idyllic for all Americans. He wouldn’t, for example, want to go back to the days when there were separate water fountains at the local Sears for whites and blacks. At the same time, he said, African Americans often bring hardship on themselves. Asked to explain what he meant, he amended the statement to mean young blacks.



“When you’re my age and you see an African American boy with pants at their knees, you can’t appreciate them,” he said, noting that he would never employ someone who dressed that way. “I’m worried about when a person chooses to dresses like that, what kind of effect will that person have on society.” He noted that the Hispanics he has hired to work at his construction company are hard workers. He doesn’t encounter people who aren’t white in social settings much because folks tend to self-segregate, he said. Mount Airy is 84 percent white, 8.2 percent black and 6.7 percent Hispanic, according to 2010 Census data.



Not everyone is nostalgic for the 1950s.



Ron Jessup, 68, who grew up in Mount Airy during that era, found the place generally friendly then, he said — as long as he and other blacks obeyed the racist laws and social mores of the time.



If African Americans went to the theater, they sat upstairs, he said. If they went to the restaurants, they avoided the counter. “We understood what was considered our place,” said Jessup, who is retired from his job as a high school principal in nearby Winston-Salem. Even now, all five Surry County commissioners are white.



Fictional Mayberry only represented part of the Mount Airy story because it only portrayed a white America, Jessup said.



White residents tend to view the city’s history through rose-colored glasses, he said. Even Andy Griffith said the show wasn’t based on his home town, Jessup noted. Indeed, in a 1998 television interview, Griffith said the idea of Mayberry came from the producers. “I’ve argued about this too long. I don’t care,” he said of people in Mount Airy. “Let them think what they want to think.” Andy Griffith never returned to live in his home town either, dying in 2012 at his coastal home in Dare County.



Ironically, when the show first aired in 1960, the intent was to hark back to an even earlier era — the 1930s, Griffith has said.



As for Trump, Jessup believes his “Make America Great Again” slogan was code for “take America back again,” and a reaction to President Obama’s election.



“Sometimes we use Christianity when it’s convenient for what we want,” Jessup said. “You can’t allow someone to have racist remarks and then go to church and talk about Jesus as the center of your life.”



God and country



When she travels with her pastor husband, Thresa Tucker hands out an evangelistic tract that uses “The Andy Griffith Show” as an entry point for talking about Jesus. When they return home to Mount Airy, she said, she is reminded of how good they have it, pointing out the red barns that dot views of the Blue Ridge.



Tucker and her husband, David, said they voted for Trump because they want a more limited federal government. They mentioned social issues such as abortion, same-sex marriage and school prayer.



The Tuckers were also dismayed when their health insurance bill skyrocketed. Before Obamacare, they had no health insurance and paid out of pocket. Their monthly bill will rise from $115 a month now to $435 next year, Thresa Tucker said.



Many of those who have lost jobs seek help at White Plains Baptist Church, where her husband is preacher. But not all who seek help are worthy of it, she said. The church has to be a good steward of its money, so there are criteria for assistance, and she asks whether people attend church regularly. African Americans who have voiced concerns over what Trump will do for the poor would have a different perspective if they tried harder to help themselves, she said.



“I think black people think they’re owed something,” she said. “I think if they acted differently people would be apt to help them.” She later added that some white people expect handouts, too.



“I believe Trump will get people back to working,” she said.




David Tucker said people resent it when the government tries to supplant the role of local ministries in helping those in need. “Don’t try to change us into something like New York,” he said. “All we really want is for the government to leave us alone and to worship the way we want to.”



Nostalgia for Christian America



After settling into a bright blue booth at Olympia Family Restaurant, Rowe said he has a lot to be thankful for. He has a good job, a wife, two kids, one grandchild and another on the way. He has a beautiful home near the country club with a view of the mountains.



But he notes that while his home town looks picturesque from the outside, it has faced some of the same issues as urban areas, including drugs and divorce. Things might have turned out differently if religion had maintained its role in the culture, he suggested.



People just aren’t committed to church, anymore, he said. The church he attends used to attract up to 600 people on a Sunday in the 1960s, but is lucky to get a third of that now. Young people leave for college and come back with more progressive, secular values, he said.




Even so, as the man he voted for is about to take office, Rowe is a bit wary. For one thing, he said, he does not want to have to defend Trump for the next four years.



“If I’ve learned anything while being a mayor,” he said, “you have to think before you speak. I’m not sure Donald Trump has learned that.”



If Trump does manage to “make America great again,” Rowe said it will involve preventing the government from encroaching on religion.



Christianity has come under attack in America, he said. “It’s subtle, not in your face, but that’s the way Satan works,” he said.



An earlier version of this story misstated the year of the PRRI survey. This version has been corrected.
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Old 01-05-2017, 07:19 PM   #54
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The worst part of all of this is that we are all being told over and over again, on this forum and elsewhere, that we have to try to understand these people, that our "elitism" has alienated them, that feeling like they live in a different time and place than we do has led to this and so we have to come together with them now and sing Kumbaya. All the while the same people are telling us that racism is overstated, women are imagining misogyny and mansplaining and the gays have it real good as compared to other parts of the world, so they need to stop oppressing us with their boo-hoos.
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Old 01-05-2017, 07:33 PM   #55
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I wonder how those people reacted to that video Andy Griffith made with Ron Howard years back where he expressed support for Obama.

Lord, those comments... They sound a lot like some of the stuff I heard from Trump supporters here in my state, too.

I love the guy whining about the way young black people dress being an indicator of their potential negative impact on society. 'Cause we all know that people who wear suits and ties and look professional have NEVER done anything wrong or had a negative impact on society, right? And they're sitting there complaining about black people feeling "owed" things while simultaneously saying, "But what about meeeeee?"

Quote:
Tucker and her husband, David, said they voted for Trump because they want a more limited federal government. They mentioned social issues such as abortion, same-sex marriage and school prayer.
Soooooo...they don't want a limited government, then?

I seriously don't understand conservatives who sit there and gripe about government influence/overreach turning around and trying to push for religion and government to be intertwined. If you really don't trust the federal government, why on earth would you want your precious religious beliefs anywhere near it, then? They're so certain that religion will influence government, it never seems to occur to them that it's not going to be a one-way street.

And of course, as we all know, if somebody tried to implement any other faith's teachings in schools, those same "religion in schools!" people would have a conniption fit.

Quote:
“Sometimes we use Christianity when it’s convenient for what we want,” Jessup said. “You can’t allow someone to have racist remarks and then go to church and talk about Jesus as the center of your life.”
Bingo. The "moral majority"/"traditional family values" crowd have been losing in recent years because they haven't lived up to the very ideals they claim to be supporting. Politicians passing anti-gay marriage laws while simultaneously having affairs (and sometimes with people of their own gender at that!), talking about Christian values and the "sanctity of marriage" when they're on their third or fourth marriage, claiming Jesus loves everyone while telling LGBT people or women who have abortions or whatnot that they're going to hell...people got tired of that hypocrisy. It's not the fact that people are Christian in and of itself that bothers most secular-minded people, it's the fact that they're trying to force other people to adapt their personal religious beliefs and treating LGBT people and any other people who don't live up to their narrow view of "good Christians" like second-class citizens. That never works.

Quote:
Morrison said the city’s younger residents tend to be socially liberal, while most in the older generations look to the past. That tension makes it harder for someone like her to push for new ideas, she said.
Yep. I see it in small towns here in Iowa all the time. The moment people graduate high school/college here, a lot of them leave the state because they don't feel there's enough to make them stay here. Or if they do stay here, they go to places like Des Moines, or Iowa City, where there's actually some variety and progress and stuff to do.

I'm not saying every small town has to become a big city, but if you don't allow for any diversity of thought/people/new ideas and stay in your "good ol' days" mindset, then yeah, your town is not going to last very long.

And I'm tired of people assuming all white working-class people feel this way towards any progressive change/different minority groups/etc. I don't. Is it seriously really that hard for some people to sympathize with things like the BLM movement or the struggles immigrants have to deal with while also trying to figure out ways to make sure working-class people can find work and make a good living? It shouldn't have to be an either/or scenario.
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Old 01-05-2017, 08:23 PM   #56
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I don't know if I think progressives need to hold hands and sing songs with the people quoted in that story. I guess my concern is that I truly thought Trump would get slaughtered at the polling booth because, you know, he's an abusive privileged moron.
But he won.
So my intellectual instinct is telling me to sit up and figure out how the fuck tens of millions of people who are essentially my country's allies, voted the way they did.
Simply saying they are wrong and stupid, over and over, doesn't progress my understanding.
I obviously think they are wrong. I think the Trump voters on here are wrong. But the thing is they think I'm wrong. And I need to figure out, 1 - if, in aspects, they are right and I am wrong and, 2 - how do I speak my truth to these people in an effective way that actually changes their mind.
Cause I just can't believe 50 million americans wanted the reality of a Trump presidency.

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Old 01-05-2017, 09:11 PM   #57
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I don't know if I think progressives need to hold hands and sing songs with the people quoted in that story. I guess my concern is that I truly thought Trump would get slaughtered at the polling booth because, you know, he's an abusive privileged moron.
But he won.
So my intellectual instinct is telling me to sit up and figure out how the fuck tens of millions of people who are essentially my country's allies, voted the way they did.
Simply saying they are wrong and stupid, over and over, doesn't progress my understanding.
I obviously think they are wrong. I think the Trump voters on here are wrong. But the thing is they think I'm wrong. And I need to figure out, 1 - if, in aspects, they are right and I am wrong and, 2 - how do I speak my truth to these people in an effective way that actually changes their mind.
Cause I just can't believe 50 million americans wanted the reality of a Trump presidency.

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I think this is very smart, and you are right.

I'm not there yet. The sense of betrayal is still too raw.
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Old 01-05-2017, 09:34 PM   #58
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Trump General Discussion IV: Unpresidented! Very sad!

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Old 01-05-2017, 09:53 PM   #59
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Don't worry, his supporters will say they never believed this either. It was a means to start the conversation!!!!

So we'll spend billions on a wall that is physically impossible, and immoral.

I'm all for smart immigration and border enforcement. But a wall just screams lazy and stupid


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Old 01-05-2017, 10:58 PM   #60
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Hi kiwilad

Just a quick piece of info that might have been discussed in previous thread. I do not have internet at home so must rely on intermittent free WiFi outside of my close by neighborhood.

Some Trump voters were willing to ignore certain things to support other things he said.

And as previously pointed some things they didn't take seriously.
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