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Old 01-03-2017, 06:42 PM   #991
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92 was incredibly bitter, with Clinton calling Bush 1, stupid. Unheard of and shocking at that time.
that's, uh, not what happened.
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Old 01-03-2017, 06:43 PM   #992
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so let me try and figure this one out... "religious" and "decent" people voted for the most vulgar, least religious and decent candidate in American history because people on the left side of the spectrum like to say fuck a lot?
There's also the fact that the use of the word "pussy" in and of itself wasn't what bothered people, it was y'know, the fact that Trump was bragging about grabbing women in that area of their bodies (or anywhere else) without their consent that got "the left" riled up.

But hey, why should we let facts and logic get in the way, right?
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Old 01-03-2017, 06:45 PM   #993
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lots of religious and decent people voted for a guy who brags about sexual assault at work.

how moral, religious and decent of them to turn the other cheek... or was it a blind eye? i can't remember.
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Old 01-03-2017, 06:52 PM   #994
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lots of religious and decent people voted for a guy who brags about sexual assault at work.

how moral, religious and decent of them to turn the other cheek... or was it a blind eye? i can't remember.

To be fair, some condemned him for a whole 30 seconds.

Others just said, boys being boys, it may not be pc, but it's just locker room talk.

These are decent people, they're decent because they knew racism, assaulting women, these things don't really "affect" people. Coal mining jobs "affect" people. You can never be a decent person until you figure this out. Turn blind eyes, sweep under rugs, bury head in sand; until then you won't be decent.


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Old 01-03-2017, 07:00 PM   #995
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and because he has a big penis. make no mistake!
From a gentleman who's referenced 'dick-swinging' quite a few times in the past right here.

Give it a rest.
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Old 01-03-2017, 07:22 PM   #996
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92 was incredibly bitter, with Clinton calling Bush 1, stupid. Unheard of and shocking at that time.
Lie. Lie. Lie.
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Old 01-03-2017, 07:58 PM   #997
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Originally Posted by Moonlit_Angel View Post

-Do you agree there are some issues with racism, sexism, and homophobia within the Republican Party? If so, how do you think those issues should be addressed, both by politicians who are looking to gain voters and by people who use those issues to decide who to vote for or not vote for? If not, why do you not believe those are issues (or rather, why do you think those issues aren't as big of a concern to people as many on the left claim)?
Time to address question number 2.

You are asking this question about the GOP in general, but in the past have assigned these qualities to Trump himself. He is literally the Elephant in the Room. I will get into a case study of 3 instances of his Misogyny, Racism, Xenophobia that occurred as candidate Trump.

First, let's talk about how we view Racism, Sexism, Homophobia. The differences between the American electorate as to what constitutes a unforgivable instance of racism. Some folks may see a statement as completely disqualifying, while others may shrug it off.

As far as a racist statement goes. It can fall on a severity spectrum from 1-10.
(Using math describe emotional responses may seem out there, but stick with me, it will make it easier to have an academic argument)

- A minor racist statement in context. An 86 year old white woman with dementia watching a football game says "Wow, that colored player is sure fast"

- A racist statement that is heinous by all standards "I'm sick of these Arabs, what do you say we go behead a couple Sand N****** after they finish their morning prayers"

Racial Statement Severity

1. Freudian Slip
2. Innocent observation that may reinforce a stereotype
3. Might want to rethink how you worded that.
4. That's a bit insensitive in this day and age
5. A Polock, a Jew, and a black guy walk into a bar
6. see Clint Eastwood in Gran Torino
7. White person using the N word in everyday conversation
8. Statement inspired by hatred of another race
9. You are a legit white supremacist
10. Himmler is proud of you and smiling in hell.

It's all about context, but judging by our scale once we get to around 5 we are dealing with a Racist. That is my litmus test. Sometimes our public officials like Trent Lott have to give up a leadership position (Senate Majority Leader) because they find themselves making a statement I would consider a 4 at a Strom Thurmond birthday dinner.

Quote: ''I want to say this about my state: When Strom Thurmond ran for president, we voted for him. We're proud of it. And if the rest of the country had followed our lead, we wouldn't have had all these problems over all these years, either.''

He could have been talking about other parts of his platform, but because Strom was an active segregationist the criticism grew legs and was amped into a 6-8 statement forcing his resignation.

Flash forward to 2016. People can lose jobs over a minor statement in the 1.5 - 2.5 range. The media can take a politician's phrase and jack it up on outrage steroids. It goes screaming higher up the racial spectrum rankings. It becomes easier to polarize sides.
On the flip side there is also a growing resentment of the polarization and what people perceive as the PC culture run amok.
The media has created another danger to blowing up minor statements into full blown "racism", is that it diminishes truly abhorrent racism.
Your initial question seems to suggest that the GOP is infected with racism, sexism, homophobia. Society as a whole has seen a softening of these negative qualities. I think this is naturally happening as a more youthful generation takes over, they are generally less bigoted because of the culture they grew up in (80s-90s-00s). The GOP as a whole is becoming more diverse with increased minority representation in Congress. That is a plus, but I imagine you are looking to address the underlying attitudes. Based upon your personal interactions with Republicans, media coverage, and their own words you feel there is racism, sexism, homophobia. The question is where does that fall on the scale? How is your reaction-sensitivity factored into assessment of the GOP?
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Old 01-03-2017, 08:00 PM   #998
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Now the GOP has a new leader. Let's address Trump, because his behavior and statements are driving the narrative.

As a non-politician, Trump did not live in the world where he was used to scrubbing his words for potential out of context moments. He learned pretty quick during his campaign announcement when speaking off the cuff about Mexico, he got himself in a big word jumble that was easily exploited as racist and xenophobic. The GOP establishment literally shit an egg with the thought of running a candidate that went against comprehensive immigration reform in an uncouth manner that they felt would sink the party.

Now I'm going to concede that Trump made an incredibly bad misogynist statement and showed racial insensitivity during the campaign.

1. The Tweet complaining about Megyn Kelly insinuating she was extra angry for a reason after the first debate. Yeah, that was bad. Totally unneccessary. Trump tried to counter-punch on instinct and offended most of the electorate.

2. The Mexican judge remark. I don't think he hates Hispanics or anybody for that matter. He may have known of the La Raza law affiliation (Not fully connected to the operational La Raza), just got too impulsive off script to tie it all together in an eloquent manner. Going back to my rating scale I place this remark around a 4.
As the standard bearer of the party, he did not help the narrative that the party was racist-xenophobic.

Backtrack to December 2015. In wake of the Paris and San Bernardino attacks we get his Muslim statement.

"Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on. According to Pew Research, among others, there is great hatred towards Americans by large segments of the Muslim population."

Later refined the policy into extreme vetting. In retrospect this was one of the game changing moments of the whole election. The left took a more nuanced approach, and of course the gun was as culpable as the assailant. When the book is written on the campaign, I'm guessing Trump saw the opportunity to own the news cycle and force every opponent to show their cards on what he knew would be a controversial statement. "Until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on" demonstrated he was not calling for a perma-ban and boxed in his GOP opponents who were in government at the time. There was simultaneous outrage in the media, Democratic party, and some GOP opponents. In the end support for his statement was over 50% with the public IIRC much to the shock of the intelligentsia. Ended up with 3 times the Muslim vote than Romney. May have come in handy on the margins in Michigan. Many voters were able to read between the lines in the primary season over what this statement was supposed to mean.

In retrospect I believe the Left feels these statements seemed to amp up a racist element that allowed him to win. Didn't take long for the media to talk about a whitelash in the wee hours of Nov 9th. Many voters were sick of being labeled irredeemable racists for supporting him. And yet he outperformed Romney with minorities, for all the media narrative labeling him as a racist monster. His rallies were the most diverse a GOP candidate had seen in my lifetime. The idea that the rise of Trump signaled the underground militia-Neo Nazis to come out of their hidden compounds to push him over the top is just silly.

Anyway that's my long-form writing for the day.... I will address Racist comments on Breitbart, the Birther issue, and finally break my silence on Pussygrab in my next piece.
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Old 01-03-2017, 09:04 PM   #999
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Trump General Discussion III

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oregoropa View Post
And yet he outperformed Romney with minorities, for all the media narrative labeling him as a racist monster. His rallies were the most diverse a GOP candidate had seen in my lifetime. The idea that the rise of Trump signaled the underground militia-Neo Nazis to come out of their hidden compounds to push him over the top is just silly.
Albeit you finally admitted some things, you may want to see a dentist, there is far too much sugar coated bullshit in here.

First of all, stop blaming the media, makes you look weak. We all saw it with our own two eyes, this wasn't some concocted story. Yes they may have made it 24/7, but it wasn't like they needed to do a whole lot of clever editing. Secondly, even if it was the most diverse GOP rallies you've seen doesn't negate the other, to think that's logic is just silly. We saw plenty of evidence they found comfort in his words and an ally to their cause. What you write off as being unpolished or slips, were often doubled or tripled down on, they were very calculated. This is the difference between being conned and seeing the con.


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Old 01-03-2017, 10:51 PM   #1000
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From a gentleman who's referenced 'dick-swinging' quite a few times in the past right here.



Give it a rest.



What?
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Old 01-03-2017, 10:53 PM   #1001
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Originally Posted by Oregoropa View Post
Time to address question number 2.

You are asking this question about the GOP in general, but in the past have assigned these qualities to Trump himself. He is literally the Elephant in the Room. I will get into a case study of 3 instances of his Misogyny, Racism, Xenophobia that occurred as candidate Trump.

First, let's talk about how we view Racism, Sexism, Homophobia. The differences between the American electorate as to what constitutes a unforgivable instance of racism. Some folks may see a statement as completely disqualifying, while others may shrug it off.

As far as a racist statement goes. It can fall on a severity spectrum from 1-10.
(Using math describe emotional responses may seem out there, but stick with me, it will make it easier to have an academic argument)

- A minor racist statement in context. An 86 year old white woman with dementia watching a football game says "Wow, that colored player is sure fast"

- A racist statement that is heinous by all standards "I'm sick of these Arabs, what do you say we go behead a couple Sand N****** after they finish their morning prayers"

Racial Statement Severity

1. Freudian Slip
2. Innocent observation that may reinforce a stereotype
3. Might want to rethink how you worded that.
4. That's a bit insensitive in this day and age
5. A Polock, a Jew, and a black guy walk into a bar
6. see Clint Eastwood in Gran Torino
7. White person using the N word in everyday conversation
8. Statement inspired by hatred of another race
9. You are a legit white supremacist
10. Himmler is proud of you and smiling in hell.

It's all about context, but judging by our scale once we get to around 5 we are dealing with a Racist. That is my litmus test. Sometimes our public officials like Trent Lott have to give up a leadership position (Senate Majority Leader) because they find themselves making a statement I would consider a 4 at a Strom Thurmond birthday dinner.

Quote: ''I want to say this about my state: When Strom Thurmond ran for president, we voted for him. We're proud of it. And if the rest of the country had followed our lead, we wouldn't have had all these problems over all these years, either.''

He could have been talking about other parts of his platform, but because Strom was an active segregationist the criticism grew legs and was amped into a 6-8 statement forcing his resignation.

Flash forward to 2016. People can lose jobs over a minor statement in the 1.5 - 2.5 range. The media can take a politician's phrase and jack it up on outrage steroids. It goes screaming higher up the racial spectrum rankings. It becomes easier to polarize sides.
On the flip side there is also a growing resentment of the polarization and what people perceive as the PC culture run amok.
The media has created another danger to blowing up minor statements into full blown "racism", is that it diminishes truly abhorrent racism.
Your initial question seems to suggest that the GOP is infected with racism, sexism, homophobia. Society as a whole has seen a softening of these negative qualities. I think this is naturally happening as a more youthful generation takes over, they are generally less bigoted because of the culture they grew up in (80s-90s-00s). The GOP as a whole is becoming more diverse with increased minority representation in Congress. That is a plus, but I imagine you are looking to address the underlying attitudes. Based upon your personal interactions with Republicans, media coverage, and their own words you feel there is racism, sexism, homophobia. The question is where does that fall on the scale? How is your reaction-sensitivity factored into assessment of the GOP?



They call this whitesplaining.
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Old 01-04-2017, 12:54 AM   #1002
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Time for the next thread.
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