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Old 12-05-2016, 05:07 PM   #76
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These three great religions all began with some backward thinking by today's standards. Two of them have had some reformation and are more tolerant and inclusive. Thank goodness Martin Luther pounded his notice on the door and began the reformation. The Christian faith is much better for his actions today. Judaism has had some reforms too.

Does anyone think if a Martin Luther challenged the Muslim faith he would be tolerated??

You can find Christian - gay groups alliances, Jewish - gay group alliances even Mormon- gay group alliances. Can you find Muslim - gay group alliances??
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Old 12-05-2016, 05:10 PM   #77
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I wonder what the difference is, deep.

Could it be that Islam is not a religion in the western world?

I wonder...?
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Old 12-05-2016, 05:15 PM   #78
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These three great religions all began with some backward thinking by today's standards. Two of them have had some reformation and are more tolerant and inclusive. Thank goodness Martin Luther pounded his notice on the door and began the reformation. The Christian faith is much better for his actions today. Judaism has had some reforms too.

Does anyone think if a Martin Luther challenged the Muslim faith he would be tolerated??

You can find Christian - gay groups alliances, Jewish - gay group alliances even Mormon- gay group alliances. Can you find Muslim - gay group alliances??

Are we using facts or feelings?

I mean a quick google search says yes, but I'm sure Hannity's feelings and feigned concern would say no.


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Old 12-05-2016, 05:31 PM   #79
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But out of curiosity I did do a google search for Trump Supporters Gay Alliance and found nothing.


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Old 12-05-2016, 05:35 PM   #80
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Some posters just love to keep playing the Duke card.

That's how we got to this point in the thread.

It's tiresome.

New topic:

I believe in future Presidential rankings George W Bush and Obama will both find themselves in the bottom 8 of Presidents.

In 2000 the national debt was 5.6 trillion. It is now approaching 20 trillion.

- Bush's neocon overreach lead to the unnecessary Iraq war. Plenty lost in blood and treasure.

- The housing collapse occurred under Bush's watch. Blame can be placed on both sides of the aisle, Wall Street, and the fiscal culture of the populace, but the buck stops with him.

Bush was bad.

- Where Bush had Cowboy diplomacy, Obama took a nuanced soft approach on the opposite end of the spectrum. Strongmen around the world took advantage of an America that was more hesitant. Isis grew in the void of a hasty telegraphed withdrawal from Iraq. (Bush and Obama together royally fucked up Mesopotamia)

- While the economy has recovered since the collapse. We've had 8 years of a Cateresque Malaise where GDP growth has never exceeded 3% in a quarter. Take home pay has been diminished for the majority of Americans by the ACA, which Obama promised would save families on average $2500 a year.

- Obama wanted to become the liberal Reagan and set the country on the path for a generational realignment. Instead he misread the mood of the country and overreached in his signature legislation without bipartisan support in his first 2 years. While personally popular, the Democrat party has been decimated from the state level to DC. Obama relied so heavily on executive orders that most of whatever 'legacy' remains will be undone.

The past 16 years have been marked by stale wage growth and a Beltway culture that became steroid-cronyism and increasingly out of touch with the people.






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Old 12-05-2016, 05:38 PM   #81
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What's funny is we have people on the left and on the right who've been telling us this for 25 years. Really, the language coming from the BMP crowd isn't much different than the alt-right folks.
You keep on trying to push this, but BMP is hardly representative of the majority on the actual left - note his views on police etc.
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Old 12-05-2016, 05:47 PM   #82
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Some posters just love to keep playing the Duke card.

That's how we got to this point in the thread.

It's tiresome.

New topic:

I believe in future Presidential rankings George W Bush and Obama will both find themselves in the bottom 8 of Presidents.

In 2000 the national debt was 5.6 trillion. It is now approaching 20 trillion.

- Bush's neocon overreach lead to the unnecessary Iraq war. Plenty lost in blood and treasure.

- The housing collapse occurred under Bush's watch. Blame can be placed on both sides of the aisle, Wall Street, and the fiscal culture of the populace, but the buck stops with him.

Bush was bad.

- Where Bush had Cowboy diplomacy, Obama took a nuanced soft approach on the opposite end of the spectrum. Strongmen around the world took advantage of an America that was more hesitant. Isis grew in the void of a hasty telegraphed withdrawal from Iraq. (Bush and Obama together royally fucked up Mesopotamia)

- While the economy has recovered since the collapse. We've had 8 years of a Cateresque Malaise where GDP growth has never exceeded 3% in a quarter. Take home pay has been diminished for the majority of Americans by the ACA, which Obama promised would save families on average $2500 a year.

- Obama wanted to become the liberal Reagan and set the country on the path for a generational realignment. Instead he misread the mood of the country and overreached in his signature legislation without bipartisan support in his first 2 years. While personally popular, the Democrat party has been decimated from the state level to DC. Obama relied so heavily on executive orders that most of whatever 'legacy' remains will be undone.

The past 16 years have been marked by stale wage growth and a Beltway culture that became steroid-cronyism and increasingly out of touch with the people.






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It's not just Duke, it's all sides of the white supremacy coin. Never have we had such an endorsed candidate by this ilk, even when they ran against a black man.

It's tiresome to you because you're not equipped or interested in ever having any kind of real conversation about racism, especially when it has to do with being associated with this campaign and cabinet. But some of us know the real dangers involved and can't bury our heads in the sand. We know you won't answer the questions because you never have.

As far as Obama, you're truly living in an information bubble if you ever think he'll be ranked that low in any poll outside of Breitbart world. Seriously, it's scary how isolated you are, I think you've become even more isolated over your time here rather than the other way around.


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Old 12-05-2016, 06:25 PM   #83
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It's not just Duke, it's all sides of the white supremacy coin. Never have we had such an endorsed candidate by this ilk, even when they ran against a black man.

It's tiresome to you because you're not equipped or interested in ever having any kind of real conversation about racism, especially when it has to do with being associated with this campaign and cabinet. But some of us know the real dangers involved and can't bury our heads in the sand. We know you won't answer the questions because you never have.

As far as Obama, you're truly living in an information bubble if you ever think he'll be ranked that low in any poll outside of Breitbart world. Seriously, it's scary how isolated you are, I think you've become even more isolated over your time here rather than the other way around.


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You have your head in the sand if you think this is all about racism. I respect you as a free thinking individual. You must acknowledge that is the Democrat party that has enjoy playing the "Identity" game by isolating groups and using fear tactics to keep them voting blue. The Media and the Left concoct new terms like "marginalized" and in September started using the label "Alt-Right" as an all encompassing hate ideology. Alt-Right in European circles may be indicative of Nativist parties in Austria and Germany. That's where I first heard the term several years ago.

Was Brexit Alt-Right? Was Farage racist?

The Alt-Right pushback stateside, before it was labeled as such was the Trump supporters versus the GOP establishment machine. Breitbart, Hannity, Rush were all on the Trump Train in the spirit of taking down the system.

Hillary gave that Alt-Right speech in September and suddenly the whole movement became The Fourth Reich in the eyes of the left.

The labeling and desire of the left to compartmentalize groups of people has backfired. The Democratic party is an endangered species outside of metropolitan areas. Is this because everybody else became Alt-Right racists all of a sudden? No.

The Left/Media has doubled down and continue to blame these 'racist' voters as the reason Hillary lost. This labeling only makes people more pissed off and drives them away from the Democratic Party and they are willing to give Trump a chance.

The Democratic party had a chance to course-correct and replace Pelosi with Tim Ryan [a young blue collar Democrat from Youngstown, OH]. They stuck with Pelosi. Sure she can fundraise the shit out of Napa Valley Liberals, but it won't win you back seats.

Do you want to talk strategy/current events or just keep harping on racism?

You keep saying the fact that I can't see things is downright scary. Maybe my eyes are wide open and have a better understanding of the current dynamics at play in the country than you.
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Old 12-05-2016, 06:34 PM   #84
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You keep on trying to push this, but BMP is hardly representative of the majority on the actual left - note his views on police etc.


Thanks for Vlad-splaining what is and isn't Left for us. It's always appreciated.
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Old 12-05-2016, 06:37 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Oregoropa View Post
You have your head in the sand if you think this is all about racism. I respect you as a free thinking individual. You must acknowledge that is the Democrat party that has enjoy playing the "Identity" game by isolating groups and using fear tactics to keep them voting blue. The Media and the Left concoct new terms like "marginalized" and in September started using the label "Alt-Right" as an all encompassing hate ideology. Alt-Right in European circles may be indicative of Nativist parties in Austria and Germany. That's where I first heard the term several years ago.



Was Brexit Alt-Right? Was Farage racist?



The Alt-Right pushback stateside, before it was labeled as such was the Trump supporters versus the GOP establishment machine. Breitbart, Hannity, Rush were all on the Trump Train in the spirit of taking down the system.



Hillary gave that Alt-Right speech in September and suddenly the whole movement became The Fourth Reich in the eyes of the left.



The labeling and desire of the left to compartmentalize groups of people has backfired. The Democratic party is an endangered species outside of metropolitan areas. Is this because everybody else became Alt-Right racists all of a sudden? No.



The Left/Media has doubled down and continue to blame these 'racist' voters as the reason Hillary lost. This labeling only makes people more pissed off and drives them away from the Democratic Party and they are willing to give Trump a chance.



The Democratic party had a chance to course-correct and replace Pelosi with Tim Ryan [a young blue collar Democrat from Youngstown, OH]. They stuck with Pelosi. Sure she can fundraise the shit out of Napa Valley Liberals, but it won't win you back seats.



Do you want to talk strategy/current events or just keep harping on racism?



You keep saying the fact that I can't see things is downright scary. Maybe my eyes are wide open and have a better understanding of the current dynamics at play in the country than you.



You're acting as if you didn't just lose the election by 2.5m votes.
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Old 12-05-2016, 06:39 PM   #86
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Thanks for Vlad-splaining what is and isn't Left for us. It's always appreciated.
I'm thinking at some point you might actually understand where I'm coming from? I have my valid reasons for not being a fan of BMP's posting on this board.
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Old 12-05-2016, 06:43 PM   #87
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Thanks for Vlad-splaining
Ugghhh, more splainin !

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Old 12-05-2016, 06:43 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Oregoropa View Post
You have your head in the sand if you think this is all about racism. I respect you as a free thinking individual. You must acknowledge that is the Democrat party that has enjoy playing the "Identity" game by isolating groups and using fear tactics to keep them voting blue. The Media and the Left concoct new terms like "marginalized" and in September started using the label "Alt-Right" as an all encompassing hate ideology. Alt-Right in European circles may be indicative of Nativist parties in Austria and Germany. That's where I first heard the term several years ago.



Was Brexit Alt-Right? Was Farage racist?



The Alt-Right pushback stateside, before it was labeled as such was the Trump supporters versus the GOP establishment machine. Breitbart, Hannity, Rush were all on the Trump Train in the spirit of taking down the system.



Hillary gave that Alt-Right speech in September and suddenly the whole movement became The Fourth Reich in the eyes of the left.



The labeling and desire of the left to compartmentalize groups of people has backfired. The Democratic party is an endangered species outside of metropolitan areas. Is this because everybody else became Alt-Right racists all of a sudden? No.



The Left/Media has doubled down and continue to blame these 'racist' voters as the reason Hillary lost. This labeling only makes people more pissed off and drives them away from the Democratic Party and they are willing to give Trump a chance.



The Democratic party had a chance to course-correct and replace Pelosi with Tim Ryan [a young blue collar Democrat from Youngstown, OH]. They stuck with Pelosi. Sure she can fundraise the shit out of Napa Valley Liberals, but it won't win you back seats.



Do you want to talk strategy/current events or just keep harping on racism?



You keep saying the fact that I can't see things is downright scary. Maybe my eyes are wide open and have a better understanding of the current dynamics at play in the country than you.

I never said it was all about racism, this all or nothing tactic is getting stale. Nor did I say all his voters were racists. And yes I think these labels get thrown about too much.

BUT racism was used in his platform, Bannon IS a racist, and if it weren't for these voters he would not have won.

Why did the Klan make Trump their first first major party endorsement in decades? Why do the white nationalists find him to be an ally? And why did Trump never denounce any of it?

Don't worry about labels right now. Why did he court these people? Why did he need them?

And why was it not an issue for all of his non-racist supporters? Were you just willing to ignore it because some of the other issues were important to you?


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Old 12-05-2016, 06:49 PM   #89
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So much mushy good stuff in here to quote right now.

So much vitriol guys.
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Old 12-05-2016, 06:57 PM   #90
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Hi thank you, did I ask you to explain deep's point?

I don't know what you're on about with a "relevant tie."

Dear anyone who thinks Mr. Mateen is a relevant human being: I don't give a shit about some sweaty old Arab man who might have some cultural and religious undertones against gay people. Welcome to fucking America. More than half of your Trump brethren are just like this man. Yeah, so his SON is an evil, despicable human being who shot and killed 50 innocent human beings of my local community. Every single time you mention the senior Mateen as some criminal, fuck you. You're all Mr. Mateen, . That man hasn't done anything half of you don't currently do. So fuck off.

David Duke comparisons, you've got to be fucking kidding me.
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So much mushy good stuff in here to quote right now.

So much vitriol guys.
coincidence ?
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