Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
The Falwell-type religious rift will tell you they were created/formed in the aftermath of Roe v Wade.
But it was really desegregation.
Trump General Discusion II
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The Falwell-type religious rift will tell you they were created/formed in the aftermath of Roe v Wade.
But it was really desegregation.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
She's now up by 1.5m in the popular vote
deep
Blue Crack Addict
So,
Kanye
Kanye
Who. Cares.
deep
Blue Crack Addict
And please don,t say
All lives matter or
blue lives matter
Because you will be called a racist, , c*nt, c*nt, c*nt.
SAPD officer shot, killed near police HQ downtown - San Antonio Express-News
Trumpets are responsible for this man's anger and action, right?
All lives matter or
blue lives matter
Because you will be called a racist, , c*nt, c*nt, c*nt.
SAPD officer shot, killed near police HQ downtown - San Antonio Express-News
Trumpets are responsible for this man's anger and action, right?
No.
You're responsible for putting a woefully unqualified douchebag in office. Not for this shooting.
coolian2
Blue Crack Supplier
deep
Blue Crack Addict
Not me,
I'm in a blue state and Madonna made a good sales pitch
Madonna says she'll give blow jobs in return for Hillary Clinton votes | Metro News
However, she is not returning my calls now
Vlad n U 2
Blue Crack Addict
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deep is on a roll
clearly coherent thoughts today
,,,
clearly coherent thoughts today
,,,
Bluer White
New Yorker
Questionable campaign strategy by the extremely well-funded Clinton crowd.
corianderstem
Blue Crack Distributor
Trump already whining about SNL making fun of him. Asking for "equal time." Election's over, sweet pea. "Equal time" time is over.
You wanted the job of Leader of the Free World, you got it. And allllll that comes with it. Yet another tick for the list of ways you were completely unprepared for the job.
Enjoy, Trumpy. The rest of us will be doing eyeball stretches for all the eye-rolling we'll be doing over your whining in the next 4 years.
You wanted the job of Leader of the Free World, you got it. And allllll that comes with it. Yet another tick for the list of ways you were completely unprepared for the job.
Enjoy, Trumpy. The rest of us will be doing eyeball stretches for all the eye-rolling we'll be doing over your whining in the next 4 years.
FB feed is full of this type of shit
Us liberals didn't learn anything. Hamilton, full of its elitist, smug, diverse cast shouldn't be talking down to a GOP white man.
This is why we lost. Because us elites share opinion
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Us liberals didn't learn anything. Hamilton, full of its elitist, smug, diverse cast shouldn't be talking down to a GOP white man.
This is why we lost. Because us elites share opinion
Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference
bono_212
Blue Crack Distributor
I only just this evening saw the exact quote of what Hamilton's cast said... This might be the greatest non-issue of our time.
corianderstem
Blue Crack Distributor
Ooh yay, I'm an elite!
Moonlit_Angel
Blue Crack Addict
And remember, this is the guy we're entrusting to handle meetings with foreign leaders.
Hope you're proud, Trump supporters.
(The funniest/saddest part about Trump's tantrum on Twitter? From what I've heard thus far, Pence, the guy the 'Hamilton' cast's message was actually directed at, apparently had a much calmer response to it.)
bono_212
Blue Crack Distributor
Seriously. His response couldn't have been more different then Trump's. It's astounding.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
What do our Trump supporters think about our great leader throwing Twitter tantrums all week long?
Could you imagine what he'd do if he were met with the outrageous disrespect ("you lie!") that Obama has had to contend with since day 1?
What a fucking baby.
Could you imagine what he'd do if he were met with the outrageous disrespect ("you lie!") that Obama has had to contend with since day 1?
What a fucking baby.
Pence's response was actually about as good as it possibly could have been in the situation. Not that I like him, of course.
Meanwhile, Trump continues to have a somewhat concerning relationship with the concepts of free speech and free press.
It goes to show that there is a real difference between these men. Pence is someone with whom I have massively policy disagreements; he's scary in a lot of ways. But he's also a relatively normal Republican with what seems to be plenty of respect for American republican institutions. Donald Trump... he's on a completely different level. He's unpredictable, he's fairly crazy, and I really don't like the sound of the President-elect saying things like SNL should have to split time or whatever - i.e., there maybe should be some sort of government mandate for it. That sort of attitude is scary above and beyond the normal Republican level of scary.
Oh yeah, this man is about to control our nuclear arsenal.
Meanwhile, Trump continues to have a somewhat concerning relationship with the concepts of free speech and free press.
It goes to show that there is a real difference between these men. Pence is someone with whom I have massively policy disagreements; he's scary in a lot of ways. But he's also a relatively normal Republican with what seems to be plenty of respect for American republican institutions. Donald Trump... he's on a completely different level. He's unpredictable, he's fairly crazy, and I really don't like the sound of the President-elect saying things like SNL should have to split time or whatever - i.e., there maybe should be some sort of government mandate for it. That sort of attitude is scary above and beyond the normal Republican level of scary.
Oh yeah, this man is about to control our nuclear arsenal.
LuckyNumber7
Blue Crack Addict
It's a sad day when Mike Pence gets kudos for being rational.
corianderstem
Blue Crack Distributor
If the rumors were true that Pence is running policy anyway, might as well just get the impeachment out of the way and get Pence in there. At least then it will be a traumatic shitshow with someone who knows what the fuck they're doing.
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Danny Boy
Rock n' Roll Doggie FOB
As long as Trump doesn't kill us all, I am looking forward to four years of schadenfreude as his supporters discover he is a self-interested buffoon.
Honestly should only take about a month, though.
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Honestly should only take about a month, though.
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bono_212
Blue Crack Distributor
The only thing with that is, of course, that whole thing were Pence tried to start a state-run news network. But other than that, yeah...I mean, I hate him, but at least he's got SOME fucking experience.
Don't get your hopes up, DB, they'll NEVER admit it.
kiwilad
Refugee
The issue though is whether any of Trump's actions are dissuading the people who voted for him. That he's proving himself to be a buffoon to those who already thought of him that way is sad, but not surprising. What I'm desperately waiting and hoping for are Trump supporters to say 'ok that's not cool, that changes my opinion'.
Because until that happens, nothing's changed
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Because until that happens, nothing's changed
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mama cass
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
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mama cass
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
- Joined
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i don't know... i'm sure there will be many who blindly follow him and continue to find justification for everything he says/does, than admit they were fooled
people can be stupid like that
Babydoll
Blue Crack Addict
You should have registered
I was asking for a intelligent, well-rounded level of discourse, not trolly comments with smilies.
'
'
Vincent Vega
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
I was asking for a intelligent, well-rounded level of discourse, not trolly comments with smilies.
'
Since Trump's not asking anyone to sew a half-moon onto their shirts, we can pretend it's something completely different and make fun of the people affected by the proposed policies without having to fear any consequences.
mama cass
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
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sound familiar? they seem to be cut from the same cloth, although due to the differences in the US and Italian constitutions in terms of presidential power (not to mention military aspects), and US global role, Trump is a far bigger worry... plus outside of Italy, Berlusconi always just seemed to a badly behaved narcissistic playboy, and not a threat to the whole world...
pretty chilling though
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ni-is-like-trump-what-can-italy-teach-america
Among the world leaders who congratulated Donald Trump on his surprise election victory was the politician to whom the billionaire real estate mogul and reality television star has most often been compared: Silvio Berlusconi.
The rightwing former Italian prime minister and billionaire media mogul, who was dogged by claims that he used an underage prostitute at his infamous “bunga bunga” parties and counted Vladimir Putin as a close ally and friend, said the comparisons between the two were “obvious” and that Trump would rule with “authority and equilibrium”.
If it’s true that Berlusconi and Trump, two showmen who have railed against immigrants, mocked women and targeted press freedom, are indeed cut from the same cloth, it may also be the case that few will understand liberal Americans’ consternation in coming years like the Italians.
Here, then, are some warnings – and a few words of advice.
Political opposition: ‘Stop crying and try to understand his voters’
For years, Berlusconi’s boorish behaviour was a gift to political opponents and journalists who were free to ridicule him. But ultimately they did not prove an effective opposition.
“Berlusconi’s opponents had a very wide and open avenue and they couldn’t resist walking down that avenue. This brought them to a number of defeats. Because when he said: ‘The west is [superior]’, and opponents said: ‘How politically incorrect, white imperialist’, the reality is that a huge part of the Italian voters said in private: ‘He is right,” said Giovanni Orsina, author of Berlusconism and Italy, an exploration of how Berlusconi held on to power.
Opposing Berlusconi by ridiculing him, Orsina said, was a way to preach to the converted, as were attempts to warn that Berlusconi’s rule represented the end of Italian democracy.
“The most powerful way to oppose him, but it was never really done seriously, was to try and understand what his voters want and try to address the need of his voters. No jokes, stop shouting, stop crying, stop saying: ‘It is a horror and disaster’; try and seriously understand what his voters want, and the left was never really successful in doing that,” Orsina said.
Press freedom: journalists ‘must be wary of complicity’
Trump has made no secret of his disdain for the media, having promised during his campaign to “open up our libel laws” to make it easier to sue media organisations for damages – singling out the New York Times, CNN, and the Washington Post, among others – and promising: “If I become president, they’re going to have such problems.”
Donald Trump will make it easier to sue media organisations.
Berlusconi’s rise in Italy was inexorably linked to his control of the media. He not only exerted influence over state-controlled organisations through his role as prime minister, but through his own media empire, including a major broadcaster and publishers.
“Many journalists were complicit even without being controlled, for example by accepting conditions, or when he chose journalists he preferred for interviews,” said Jacopo Iacoboni, a political journalist at La Stampa.
In what was later called “the Bulgarian edict”, Berlusconi in 2002 accused journalists at state-controlled RAI of using “television as a criminal means of communication”, in part because of reports that alleged Berlusconi had ties with organised crime. The journalists were subsequently fired and banned from working for RAI.
Everyday sexism: prepare for a new feminist fightback
Berlusconi was ultimately acquitted of knowingly hiring an underage prostitute at his infamous “bunga bunga” parties, and of abusing his position to cover it up. But his tenure became synonymous with the everyday demeaning of women – particularly on television – as sex objects, as the prime minister regularly insulted and mocked women in public, even making sex jokes at public events meant to honour women’s achievements.
In Berlusconi’s Italy, a woman’s looks were paramount. The prime minister even appointed a former model and showgirl to serve as equal opportunities minister.
Trump’s obsession with women’s looks has similarly been well documented throughout his campaign for president, including his rating women on a scale of 1-10, and numerous accusations of sexual harassment and assault.
But in Italy there was also a backlash, and an awakening among some Italian women, according to Emma Bonino, the former foreign minister and feminist who helped secure abortion and divorce rights in Italy in the 1970s.
“Berlusconi’s attitude prompted a sort of revolt from women, and women’s groups, who had been silent and absent for years, even on important women’s issues,” Bonino said. It prompted opposition to female stereotypes, particularly in the media, and the scourge of domestic violence, which had often gone unacknowledged, she said.
The religious right: an unholy alliance?
Berlusconi had an unspoken agreement with the Roman Catholic church that helped him hold on to power.
Italian bishops looked the other way and did not criticise what might otherwise have been deemed less-than-Christian behaviour, as long as Berlusconi helped them on their legislative agenda, including blocking same-sex unions, limiting fertility treatments opposed by the church, and generally addressing their fear of being “swallowed up by secularisation, Islam [in the form of immigration], and liberalisation”, said Massimo Faggioli, a church historian at Villanova University.
Five years after his resignation from office, Italy still has no prospects of passing same-sex marriage into law (though civil unions are now legal), lesbian and gay parents do not have legal rights over their children, IVF treatment is limited to married couples, and surrogacy – strongly opposed by the church – is illegal.
Similarly, the thrice-married Trump - who has never convincingly spoken of having religious faith – won the support of four out of five white evangelicals, largely based on their hopes that Trump would elect conservative anti-abortion judges on the supreme court. While it has received scant attention, Trump has also promised to repeal a 1954 ban that prevents tax-exempt organisations like churches from getting involved in politics, a change that could give churches an even more powerful role in US politics.
Berlusconi and the law: a worrying precedent
Last week Trump settled fraud lawsuits relating to Trump University for $25m, removing a legal headache despite having pledged to fight the cases to the bitter end.
He has also alleged that he is the subject of an audit by US tax authorities and, before his election, had threatened to sue women who had accused him of sexual harassment and assault.
Berlusconi faced similar entanglements with the judicial system and the issues ultimately pressured him and constrained his ability to pass legislation. Prosecutors who sought to charge him with crimes were derided as unelected communists, and there a poisonous relationship soon developed between judges and prosecutors and the prime minister’s office.
“Berlusconi tried to use his political power to defend himself, making laws and using his position as prime minister to delay trials. There were also several legal attempts – like making a law that as president of the republic you cannot go to trial as long as you are in power – but he never really succeeded,” said Orsina.
Trump enters the White House after a contentious election in which he derided federal investigators at the FBI, but also after he was seen as having been helped by the FBI director, James Comey, who made a surprise announcement about the continuation of a probe into Hillary Clinton – which was later dropped – 11 days before the election. Trump has also sought to delay a civil fraud trial into one of his businesses until after his inauguration.
Minority rights: ‘Migrants were scapegoated for societal decline’
Like Trump, Berlusconi’s rise was fuelled by his anti-immigrant views, particularly against the Roma and, later, migrants. In his final years in office, defections from Berlusconi’s Forza Italia party forced him to look to Italy’s far right – even more than he had before – to keep his coalition, essentially forcing him to lock arms with the xenophobic Northern League, which has called for the expulsion of migrants. A similar dynamic may soon be at work in the US.
While Donald Trump this week called for the deportation of 2 million to 3 million undocumented immigrants who have allegedly committed crimes, he left the door open to even more deportations later on, even as the Republican speaker of the House, Paul Ryan, who is a mainstream conservative, denied there was interest in a “deportation force”. A rupture between Trump and Ryan could force Trump to seek alliances among even more rightwing Republicans on immigration policy.
The position of minorities in Italian society, according to the senator and human rights expert Francesco Palermo, was “affected severely”, in large part due to a series of “emergency decrees” that sought to expel the Roma from Italy. Funds for traditional minorities were reduced and are now 1/10 of what they were in 2000, Palermo said, and migrants “were scapegoated for the overall decline of society”.
“I do not believe minorities will be a direct target under the Trump administration, as this would immediately be under the spotlight. But more worrying, the deterioration of their situation will be a consequence of the societal climate. This is somewhat similar to the trend we observed in Italy under Berlusconi,” Palermo said.
The damage done
Berlusconi did not ultimately vanquish Italy’s democratic institutions. But the lasting damage he inflicted, according to Guy Dinmore, a former correspondent for the Financial Times who covered Berlusconi’s final term, came in the way his three-time premiership celebrated and normalised the flouting of rules, including on paying taxes.
Under Silvio Berlusconi’s premiership, ‘people were almost encouraged not to pay their taxes’.
“What he did was to perpetuate the old system he inherited, which was a clientelist system where meritocracy had no place, and corruption is rife, and people were almost encouraged by Berlusconi not to pay their taxes. Italy was a swamp … and he made it worse,” Dinmore said.
Journalist Iacoboni agreed, saying the lasting impact of Berlusconi was “the cultural idea that you could do anything in your own interests.”
“He legitimised every kind of infraction of rules, going back to his television career in the 1980s. It was as if to say: ‘You Italians like to be gross with women? Well, I say to you, you can do this.’ I think this [idea you can do anything to further your own interests] is much worse than even the legal accusations.”
pretty chilling though
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ni-is-like-trump-what-can-italy-teach-america
Among the world leaders who congratulated Donald Trump on his surprise election victory was the politician to whom the billionaire real estate mogul and reality television star has most often been compared: Silvio Berlusconi.
The rightwing former Italian prime minister and billionaire media mogul, who was dogged by claims that he used an underage prostitute at his infamous “bunga bunga” parties and counted Vladimir Putin as a close ally and friend, said the comparisons between the two were “obvious” and that Trump would rule with “authority and equilibrium”.
If it’s true that Berlusconi and Trump, two showmen who have railed against immigrants, mocked women and targeted press freedom, are indeed cut from the same cloth, it may also be the case that few will understand liberal Americans’ consternation in coming years like the Italians.
Here, then, are some warnings – and a few words of advice.
Political opposition: ‘Stop crying and try to understand his voters’
For years, Berlusconi’s boorish behaviour was a gift to political opponents and journalists who were free to ridicule him. But ultimately they did not prove an effective opposition.
“Berlusconi’s opponents had a very wide and open avenue and they couldn’t resist walking down that avenue. This brought them to a number of defeats. Because when he said: ‘The west is [superior]’, and opponents said: ‘How politically incorrect, white imperialist’, the reality is that a huge part of the Italian voters said in private: ‘He is right,” said Giovanni Orsina, author of Berlusconism and Italy, an exploration of how Berlusconi held on to power.
Opposing Berlusconi by ridiculing him, Orsina said, was a way to preach to the converted, as were attempts to warn that Berlusconi’s rule represented the end of Italian democracy.
“The most powerful way to oppose him, but it was never really done seriously, was to try and understand what his voters want and try to address the need of his voters. No jokes, stop shouting, stop crying, stop saying: ‘It is a horror and disaster’; try and seriously understand what his voters want, and the left was never really successful in doing that,” Orsina said.
Press freedom: journalists ‘must be wary of complicity’
Trump has made no secret of his disdain for the media, having promised during his campaign to “open up our libel laws” to make it easier to sue media organisations for damages – singling out the New York Times, CNN, and the Washington Post, among others – and promising: “If I become president, they’re going to have such problems.”
Donald Trump will make it easier to sue media organisations.
Berlusconi’s rise in Italy was inexorably linked to his control of the media. He not only exerted influence over state-controlled organisations through his role as prime minister, but through his own media empire, including a major broadcaster and publishers.
“Many journalists were complicit even without being controlled, for example by accepting conditions, or when he chose journalists he preferred for interviews,” said Jacopo Iacoboni, a political journalist at La Stampa.
In what was later called “the Bulgarian edict”, Berlusconi in 2002 accused journalists at state-controlled RAI of using “television as a criminal means of communication”, in part because of reports that alleged Berlusconi had ties with organised crime. The journalists were subsequently fired and banned from working for RAI.
Everyday sexism: prepare for a new feminist fightback
Berlusconi was ultimately acquitted of knowingly hiring an underage prostitute at his infamous “bunga bunga” parties, and of abusing his position to cover it up. But his tenure became synonymous with the everyday demeaning of women – particularly on television – as sex objects, as the prime minister regularly insulted and mocked women in public, even making sex jokes at public events meant to honour women’s achievements.
In Berlusconi’s Italy, a woman’s looks were paramount. The prime minister even appointed a former model and showgirl to serve as equal opportunities minister.
Trump’s obsession with women’s looks has similarly been well documented throughout his campaign for president, including his rating women on a scale of 1-10, and numerous accusations of sexual harassment and assault.
But in Italy there was also a backlash, and an awakening among some Italian women, according to Emma Bonino, the former foreign minister and feminist who helped secure abortion and divorce rights in Italy in the 1970s.
“Berlusconi’s attitude prompted a sort of revolt from women, and women’s groups, who had been silent and absent for years, even on important women’s issues,” Bonino said. It prompted opposition to female stereotypes, particularly in the media, and the scourge of domestic violence, which had often gone unacknowledged, she said.
The religious right: an unholy alliance?
Berlusconi had an unspoken agreement with the Roman Catholic church that helped him hold on to power.
Italian bishops looked the other way and did not criticise what might otherwise have been deemed less-than-Christian behaviour, as long as Berlusconi helped them on their legislative agenda, including blocking same-sex unions, limiting fertility treatments opposed by the church, and generally addressing their fear of being “swallowed up by secularisation, Islam [in the form of immigration], and liberalisation”, said Massimo Faggioli, a church historian at Villanova University.
Five years after his resignation from office, Italy still has no prospects of passing same-sex marriage into law (though civil unions are now legal), lesbian and gay parents do not have legal rights over their children, IVF treatment is limited to married couples, and surrogacy – strongly opposed by the church – is illegal.
Similarly, the thrice-married Trump - who has never convincingly spoken of having religious faith – won the support of four out of five white evangelicals, largely based on their hopes that Trump would elect conservative anti-abortion judges on the supreme court. While it has received scant attention, Trump has also promised to repeal a 1954 ban that prevents tax-exempt organisations like churches from getting involved in politics, a change that could give churches an even more powerful role in US politics.
Berlusconi and the law: a worrying precedent
Last week Trump settled fraud lawsuits relating to Trump University for $25m, removing a legal headache despite having pledged to fight the cases to the bitter end.
He has also alleged that he is the subject of an audit by US tax authorities and, before his election, had threatened to sue women who had accused him of sexual harassment and assault.
Berlusconi faced similar entanglements with the judicial system and the issues ultimately pressured him and constrained his ability to pass legislation. Prosecutors who sought to charge him with crimes were derided as unelected communists, and there a poisonous relationship soon developed between judges and prosecutors and the prime minister’s office.
“Berlusconi tried to use his political power to defend himself, making laws and using his position as prime minister to delay trials. There were also several legal attempts – like making a law that as president of the republic you cannot go to trial as long as you are in power – but he never really succeeded,” said Orsina.
Trump enters the White House after a contentious election in which he derided federal investigators at the FBI, but also after he was seen as having been helped by the FBI director, James Comey, who made a surprise announcement about the continuation of a probe into Hillary Clinton – which was later dropped – 11 days before the election. Trump has also sought to delay a civil fraud trial into one of his businesses until after his inauguration.
Minority rights: ‘Migrants were scapegoated for societal decline’
Like Trump, Berlusconi’s rise was fuelled by his anti-immigrant views, particularly against the Roma and, later, migrants. In his final years in office, defections from Berlusconi’s Forza Italia party forced him to look to Italy’s far right – even more than he had before – to keep his coalition, essentially forcing him to lock arms with the xenophobic Northern League, which has called for the expulsion of migrants. A similar dynamic may soon be at work in the US.
While Donald Trump this week called for the deportation of 2 million to 3 million undocumented immigrants who have allegedly committed crimes, he left the door open to even more deportations later on, even as the Republican speaker of the House, Paul Ryan, who is a mainstream conservative, denied there was interest in a “deportation force”. A rupture between Trump and Ryan could force Trump to seek alliances among even more rightwing Republicans on immigration policy.
The position of minorities in Italian society, according to the senator and human rights expert Francesco Palermo, was “affected severely”, in large part due to a series of “emergency decrees” that sought to expel the Roma from Italy. Funds for traditional minorities were reduced and are now 1/10 of what they were in 2000, Palermo said, and migrants “were scapegoated for the overall decline of society”.
“I do not believe minorities will be a direct target under the Trump administration, as this would immediately be under the spotlight. But more worrying, the deterioration of their situation will be a consequence of the societal climate. This is somewhat similar to the trend we observed in Italy under Berlusconi,” Palermo said.
The damage done
Berlusconi did not ultimately vanquish Italy’s democratic institutions. But the lasting damage he inflicted, according to Guy Dinmore, a former correspondent for the Financial Times who covered Berlusconi’s final term, came in the way his three-time premiership celebrated and normalised the flouting of rules, including on paying taxes.
Under Silvio Berlusconi’s premiership, ‘people were almost encouraged not to pay their taxes’.
“What he did was to perpetuate the old system he inherited, which was a clientelist system where meritocracy had no place, and corruption is rife, and people were almost encouraged by Berlusconi not to pay their taxes. Italy was a swamp … and he made it worse,” Dinmore said.
Journalist Iacoboni agreed, saying the lasting impact of Berlusconi was “the cultural idea that you could do anything in your own interests.”
“He legitimised every kind of infraction of rules, going back to his television career in the 1980s. It was as if to say: ‘You Italians like to be gross with women? Well, I say to you, you can do this.’ I think this [idea you can do anything to further your own interests] is much worse than even the legal accusations.”
Last edited:
Vlad n U 2
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Agree with the above article. I think 'Trump is Berlusconi' is really the only 'Trump is x' take that makes any real sense.
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