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Old 11-30-2016, 03:58 PM   #841
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Yeah, you're right, it really is pointless.
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Old 11-30-2016, 04:11 PM   #842
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Old 11-30-2016, 04:29 PM   #843
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What if Trump made Bernie Sec. of Labor?

(not gonna happen, probably Lou Barletta R-PA Wilkes-Barre area)
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Old 11-30-2016, 04:55 PM   #844
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It's exactly this idiotic, factless equivocation between Trump and Hillary that got us into this mess in the first place.
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Old 11-30-2016, 05:27 PM   #845
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bono_212 View Post
For some reason I can't quote Mrs. G's post, but as much as I would never burn a flag, I do find the passion with which you defend it strange, in a sense that it almost seems like you fought to defend that symbol, rather than the people, ideals and country itself.
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Originally Posted by Axver View Post
I can't even get my head around the notion of fighting to defend a flag and find it a hilariously absurd jingoistic cliché. But then I come from a country where I am a very enthusiastic proponent of changing the flag.

I actually have a New Zealand flag up in my house (I put it and my silver fern flag up for last year's cricket and rugby World Cups and haven't taken them down), but if you said you'd buy me a beer if I set it on fire, sure I want that beer.
Perhaps i didn't word my post very well so my apologies and let me try again.

here is what i posted earlier:

Quote:
Let me just say that for most of us the flag is not a symbol of our own service but rather it is symbolic that we served something much greater than ourselves. This of course means that we were ready to give our lives to defend it if necessary. It's duty, honor, country. I did not comprehend all of that when i first took the oath, nobody does, a person only fully understands when they have walked the trail, so to speak.
We don't serve the flag, we serve our country, the flag is merely a symbol of the country. It is the country, the people, that is what i referred to as "much greater than ourselves". I hope that makes better sense now.

Also, i did mention that TRUMP and HRC's proposals or statements might be a bit extreme:

Quote:
I think what HRC proposed (flag burning with the intent to incite violence or disturb the peace punishable by a year in jail and a $100,000 fine) or TRUMP (perhaps loss of citizenship or year in jail!) might be extreme. However, i would support a small fine, let's say $100 first offense just for the sake of this discussion
So while i detest the action of burning the flag, i am also aware that it is a persons right to do so if that is what they want to do. And therefore i do recognize that my service to this country was also to defend their right to burn the flag, among other things. But that doesn't change the fact that in my opinion flag burning is disgusting. Again, i recognize that everyone has their own opinion and it's probably just as hard for me to understand why someone would do such a thing as it is as hard for them to understand why i would feel the way i do about their actions.

I don't think it should be legal to set any object of any kind on fire in a public protest or demonstration, be it a flag, effigies, a bunch of records, books, etc. It is a dangerous act to be quite honest. Keeping that in mind, i would support small fines for public burning of any kind in protest or demonstration setting. Not 1 year in jail, loss of citizenship, or $100k fines, however.
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Old 11-30-2016, 05:46 PM   #846
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It's exactly this idiotic, factless equivocation between Trump and Hillary that got us into this mess in the first place.
The damage was already done. Poor primary selection was the culprit. Identity politics + big money has been the Democrats go-to for too long and it's now clearly a losing strategy. We'll all know better next time, rather than just the young such as myself.
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Old 11-30-2016, 05:49 PM   #847
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So we're back to reading minds? Cool
Obama appointed Wall Street people to those same positions and, ring ring, Hillary Clinton was their candidate of choice this time around. Of course people responsible for the collapse or willing underlings during it would be promoted to those positions if she were President. She had no problem letting them be her #1 donors.

And again, she gave fucking speeches to these institutions for millions of dollars, showering them with praise.

Or did you really think that a hypothetical Clinton Presidency would have led to Warren-esque appointments up and down the board?

But whatever, it's done. This should be the end of corporatism within the party. No to Booker in 2020, yes to whomever the Progressive flag waver and nominee happens to be.
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Old 11-30-2016, 06:06 PM   #848
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This is exactly what I said he would do like a couple of days after the election. Some small, meaningless "I save jobs!" thing like this that lets him parade around a plant and save face and his supporters are by and large too stupid to realize this will have no appreciable effect.
Not only that, but he's creating incentives for other companies to threaten to move overseas in order to get state subsidies.

Oh, and subsidies are generally pretty bad for everyone, particularly the working class. It's pretty special that the small government party is pushing for subsidies while at the same time trying to privatize medicare.
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Old 11-30-2016, 06:17 PM   #849
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Nancy Pelosi re-elected as House Democratic leader - CNNPolitics.com

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Washington(CNN) House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi defeated Ohio Democratic Rep. Tim Ryan ‎to retain her post as the top elected Democrat in the House during a closed-door meeting Wednesday.
The final vote was 134 to 63 for Pelosi, meaning she matched her prediction that she'd retain the support of two-thirds of House Democrats. But it also means that close to one-third of the diminished group voted for a change in leadership after getting beat again on Election Day.

Pelosi brushed aside those concerns Wednesday, telling CNN, "They weren't defections, I got two-thirds of the vote."
The veteran leader, who has led the group since 2003 through three Republican House speakers and her own tenure at the top, said she viewed Wednesday's battle as a chance to start winning again.
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Old 11-30-2016, 06:53 PM   #850
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs. Garrison View Post
Perhaps i didn't word my post very well so my apologies and let me try again.

here is what i posted earlier:



We don't serve the flag, we serve our country, the flag is merely a symbol of the country. It is the country, the people, that is what i referred to as "much greater than ourselves". I hope that makes better sense now.

Also, i did mention that TRUMP and HRC's proposals or statements might be a bit extreme:



So while i detest the action of burning the flag, i am also aware that it is a persons right to do so if that is what they want to do. And therefore i do recognize that my service to this country was also to defend their right to burn the flag, among other things. But that doesn't change the fact that in my opinion flag burning is disgusting. Again, i recognize that everyone has their own opinion and it's probably just as hard for me to understand why someone would do such a thing as it is as hard for them to understand why i would feel the way i do about their actions.

I don't think it should be legal to set any object of any kind on fire in a public protest or demonstration, be it a flag, effigies, a bunch of records, books, etc. It is a dangerous act to be quite honest. Keeping that in mind, i would support small fines for public burning of any kind in protest or demonstration setting. Not 1 year in jail, loss of citizenship, or $100k fines, however.
And now I am on the same page as you. Thanks for the clarification, I do appreciate it.
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Old 11-30-2016, 06:59 PM   #851
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And now I am on the same page as you. Thanks for the clarification, I do appreciate it.
No problem, thank you as well
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Old 11-30-2016, 08:29 PM   #852
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I was hoping Ryan would win, just so we could have speaker of the house and house minority leader both named Ryan just to add to the confusion that is DC.
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Old 12-01-2016, 04:19 AM   #853
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For what it's worth, the guy that ran against her is pretty much a no-name and hardly different from her on the political spectrum. But he said he had to run for the job, obviously, because something needs to be done after all this losing for the Democrats...it's just hard to accomplish taking her out when it requires challenging the establishment in the first place in order to do it. Plus, your track record will probably automatically be spotty when turnout drops in the 2018 election and Republicans probably make even more gains.
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Old 12-01-2016, 04:29 AM   #854
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When Trump is talking about bringing back torture, he is talking about things like this: https://www.hrw.org/news/2016/10/03/...torture-claims

The techniques described here are perfectly coherent with those used e.g. under the Saddam Regime in Iraq (where torture continues to this day), the Assad Regime in Syria or the military regimes in Turkey in the 1980s and 1990s (before physical torture was almost completely replaced by psychological torture as it is harder to be traced).
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Old 12-01-2016, 02:44 PM   #855
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these objectively stupid fucks get the government they deserve.





feeling more and more like a hostage these days.

i'd drive off a cliff if we didn't know that at least 2.5m more people voted for the other candidate.
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