Trump General Discusion II

[anitram]

Yeah, you're right, it really is pointless.

 

[Diemen]

nm

 

[Oregoropa]

What if Trump made Bernie Sec. of Labor?

(not gonna happen, probably Lou Barletta R-PA Wilkes-Barre area)

 

[Irvine511]

It's exactly this idiotic, factless equivocation between Trump and Hillary that got us into this mess in the first place.

 

[Mrs. Garrison]

For some reason I can't quote Mrs. G's post, but as much as I would never burn a flag, I do find the passion with which you defend it strange, in a sense that it almost seems like you fought to defend that symbol, rather than the people, ideals and country itself.

I can't even get my head around the notion of fighting to defend a flag and find it a hilariously absurd jingoistic cliché. But then I come from a country where I am a very enthusiastic proponent of changing the flag.

I actually have a New Zealand flag up in my house (I put it and my silver fern flag up for last year's cricket and rugby World Cups and haven't taken them down), but if you said you'd buy me a beer if I set it on fire, sure I want that beer.

Perhaps i didn't word my post very well so my apologies and let me try again.

here is what i posted earlier:

Let me just say that for most of us the flag is not a symbol of our own service but rather it is symbolic that we served something much greater than ourselves. This of course means that we were ready to give our lives to defend it if necessary. It's duty, honor, country. I did not comprehend all of that when i first took the oath, nobody does, a person only fully understands when they have walked the trail, so to speak.

We don't serve the flag, we serve our country, the flag is merely a symbol of the country. It is the country, the people, that is what i referred to as "much greater than ourselves". I hope that makes better sense now.

Also, i did mention that TRUMP and HRC's proposals or statements might be a bit extreme:

I think what HRC proposed (flag burning with the intent to incite violence or disturb the peace punishable by a year in jail and a $100,000 fine) or TRUMP (perhaps loss of citizenship or year in jail!) might be extreme. However, i would support a small fine, let's say $100 first offense just for the sake of this discussion

So while i detest the action of burning the flag, i am also aware that it is a persons right to do so if that is what they want to do. And therefore i do recognize that my service to this country was also to defend their right to burn the flag, among other things. But that doesn't change the fact that in my opinion flag burning is disgusting. Again, i recognize that everyone has their own opinion and it's probably just as hard for me to understand why someone would do such a thing as it is as hard for them to understand why i would feel the way i do about their actions.

I don't think it should be legal to set any object of any kind on fire in a public protest or demonstration, be it a flag, effigies, a bunch of records, books, etc. It is a dangerous act to be quite honest. Keeping that in mind, i would support small fines for public burning of any kind in protest or demonstration setting. Not 1 year in jail, loss of citizenship, or $100k fines, however.

 

[BigMacPhisto]

It's exactly this idiotic, factless equivocation between Trump and Hillary that got us into this mess in the first place.

The damage was already done. Poor primary selection was the culprit. Identity politics + big money has been the Democrats go-to for too long and it's now clearly a losing strategy. We'll all know better next time, rather than just the young such as myself.

 

[BigMacPhisto]

So we're back to reading minds? Cool

Obama appointed Wall Street people to those same positions and, ring ring, Hillary Clinton was their candidate of choice this time around. Of course people responsible for the collapse or willing underlings during it would be promoted to those positions if she were President. She had no problem letting them be her #1 donors.

And again, she gave fucking speeches to these institutions for millions of dollars, showering them with praise.

Or did you really think that a hypothetical Clinton Presidency would have led to Warren-esque appointments up and down the board?

But whatever, it's done. This should be the end of corporatism within the party. No to Booker in 2020, yes to whomever the Progressive flag waver and nominee happens to be.

 

[gump]

This is exactly what I said he would do like a couple of days after the election. Some small, meaningless "I save jobs!" thing like this that lets him parade around a plant and save face and his supporters are by and large too stupid to realize this will have no appreciable effect.

Not only that, but he's creating incentives for other companies to threaten to move overseas in order to get state subsidies.

Oh, and subsidies are generally pretty bad for everyone, particularly the working class. It's pretty special that the small government party is pushing for subsidies while at the same time trying to privatize medicare.

 

[Bluer White]

Nancy Pelosi re-elected as House Democratic leader - CNNPolitics.com

Washington(CNN) House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi defeated Ohio Democratic Rep. Tim Ryan ‎to retain her post as the top elected Democrat in the House during a closed-door meeting Wednesday.
The final vote was 134 to 63 for Pelosi, meaning she matched her prediction that she'd retain the support of two-thirds of House Democrats. But it also means that close to one-third of the diminished group voted for a change in leadership after getting beat again on Election Day.

Pelosi brushed aside those concerns Wednesday, telling CNN, "They weren't defections, I got two-thirds of the vote."
The veteran leader, who has led the group since 2003 through three Republican House speakers and her own tenure at the top, said she viewed Wednesday's battle as a chance to start winning again.

 

[bono_212]

Perhaps i didn't word my post very well so my apologies and let me try again.

here is what i posted earlier:



We don't serve the flag, we serve our country, the flag is merely a symbol of the country. It is the country, the people, that is what i referred to as "much greater than ourselves". I hope that makes better sense now.

Also, i did mention that TRUMP and HRC's proposals or statements might be a bit extreme:



So while i detest the action of burning the flag, i am also aware that it is a persons right to do so if that is what they want to do. And therefore i do recognize that my service to this country was also to defend their right to burn the flag, among other things. But that doesn't change the fact that in my opinion flag burning is disgusting. Again, i recognize that everyone has their own opinion and it's probably just as hard for me to understand why someone would do such a thing as it is as hard for them to understand why i would feel the way i do about their actions.

I don't think it should be legal to set any object of any kind on fire in a public protest or demonstration, be it a flag, effigies, a bunch of records, books, etc. It is a dangerous act to be quite honest. Keeping that in mind, i would support small fines for public burning of any kind in protest or demonstration setting. Not 1 year in jail, loss of citizenship, or $100k fines, however.

And now I am on the same page as you. Thanks for the clarification, I do appreciate it.

 

[Mrs. Garrison]

And now I am on the same page as you. Thanks for the clarification, I do appreciate it.

No problem, thank you as well

 

[Hewson]

Nancy Pelosi re-elected as House Democratic leader - CNNPolitics.com

I was hoping Ryan would win, just so we could have speaker of the house and house minority leader both named Ryan just to add to the confusion that is DC.

 

[BigMacPhisto]

For what it's worth, the guy that ran against her is pretty much a no-name and hardly different from her on the political spectrum. But he said he had to run for the job, obviously, because something needs to be done after all this losing for the Democrats...it's just hard to accomplish taking her out when it requires challenging the establishment in the first place in order to do it. Plus, your track record will probably automatically be spotty when turnout drops in the 2018 election and Republicans probably make even more gains.

 

[Vincent Vega]

When Trump is talking about bringing back torture, he is talking about things like this: https://www.hrw.org/news/2016/10/03/interview-new-cia-torture-claims

The techniques described here are perfectly coherent with those used e.g. under the Saddam Regime in Iraq (where torture continues to this day), the Assad Regime in Syria or the military regimes in Turkey in the 1980s and 1990s (before physical torture was almost completely replaced by psychological torture as it is harder to be traced).

 

[Irvine511]

these objectively stupid fucks get the government they deserve.





feeling more and more like a hostage these days.

i'd drive off a cliff if we didn't know that at least 2.5m more people voted for the other candidate.

 

[Mack_Again]

You're all quoting him again

yeah i can't believe that i did it either.

 

[anitram]

these objectively stupid fucks get the government they deserve.

This clip should be played every single time the "elites" are told that they need to sit down and talk to these real Americans and understand them.

There is NO POINT. Those people in the clip are all beyond hope. They probably walked away from that interview rolling their eyes at how uppity and condescending the anchor was.

 

[Danny Boy]

This clip should be played every single time the "elites" are told that they need to sit down and talk to these real Americans and understand them.

There is NO POINT. Those people in the clip are all beyond hope. They probably walked away from that interview rolling their eyes at how uppity and condescending the anchor was.

I deal with this same kind of anti-intellectualism every day at work. My years of education and experience mean nothing because they read it on Facebook.

 

[corianderstem]

There's a laugh-but-wince-because-it's-true tweet going around about how these types of Americans were telling their children in 1996 that they have to be really careful online because people lie on the internet.

 

[anitram]

It also doesn't surprise me one bit that none of them seem to mind that the (about to be) President of the most important nation in the world deems it fit to spend his time negotiating subsidies to an air conditioning company to save 1000 jobs in Indiana. While, by the way, turning down security briefings.

I would say that it boggles the mind, except we in Toronto have seen this before, obviously on a lesser scale, with Rob Ford. I remember during his tenure as Mayor, in the midst of his crack and drinking and god knows what else, council members were complaining that he still filled his days by dealing with personal issues of his constituents while being wholly ignorant of legislation, policies, etc. In fact, there was a story of how a watermain was being repaired in an area resulting in a particular house being cut off from water for days, a problem that nobody had fixed. So of course the woman in the house called Rob Ford and he immediately mobilized crews out there. When asked by the media if he thought that was the best allocation of his time as Mayor, he completely earnestly responded "what could be MORE important than this woman getting her water turned back on?" So this is why these buffoons voted for him.

 

[Irvine511]

It also doesn't surprise me one bit that none of them seem to mind that the (about to be) President of the most important nation in the world deems it fit to spend his time negotiating subsidies to an air conditioning company to save 1000 jobs in Indiana. While, by the way, turning down security briefings.

plus, he's essentially announced that he's giving away money if corporations will threaten to offshore jobs.

so there's that.

 

[iron yuppie]

It also doesn't surprise me one bit that none of them seem to mind that the (about to be) President of the most important nation in the world deems it fit to spend his time negotiating subsidies to an air conditioning company to save 1000 jobs in Indiana. While, by the way, turning down security briefings.

I would say that it boggles the mind, except we in Toronto have seen this before, obviously on a lesser scale, with Rob Ford. I remember during his tenure as Mayor, in the midst of his crack and drinking and god knows what else, council members were complaining that he still filled his days by dealing with personal issues of his constituents while being wholly ignorant of legislation, policies, etc. In fact, there was a story of how a watermain was being repaired in an area resulting in a particular house being cut off from water for days, a problem that nobody had fixed. So of course the woman in the house called Rob Ford and he immediately mobilized crews out there. When asked by the media if he thought that was the best allocation of his time as Mayor, he completely earnestly responded "what could be MORE important than this woman getting her water turned back on?" So this is why these buffoons voted for him.

Sounds like Clay Davis from The Wire.

 

[DaveC]

sheeeeeit, being even one tenth as good a politician as clay davis would have been rob ford's wet dream.

 

[gump]

I love that sheeeeeeit.

 

[BVS]

these objectively stupid fucks get the government they deserve.





feeling more and more like a hostage these days.

i'd drive off a cliff if we didn't know that at least 2.5m more people voted for the other candidate.

It's information isolationism.

They make the very conscious decision to avoid or question anything that does not fit in their world view. But will not question any headline that makes them FEEL validated about their world view.

They make their decisions first, and then seek "news" that will validate it.

This is how we got Trump. 1/4 of this country doubled down on stupid and/ or hate. Plain and simple. And frankly I'm tired of being told I'm "self-righteous" for saying so. There is no way around it. The information is out there, if you consciously ignore it, it's your fault. Yes a factory worker with little education still has the access to the facts; you don't have to be an accountant or scientist to understand the issues at hand.


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[LuckyNumber7]

They make their decisions first, and then seek "news" that will validate it.

I found this Muslim chick who totally supports the Muslim registry. Therefore you're wrong. Even muslims support it man.

 

[gump]

The best part is that it's the coastal elites that live in the bubble.

 

[gareth brown]

good god, how is that woman not on her feet shouting at these people?

"...California, where 3 million illegals voted." suddenly turns to "To tell you the truth, nobody knows that number [...]I think there was a good amount." Based on what?? If "nobody knows" and all you've got to go on is a quote taken out of context that you're not willing to look further into because you may find out you were misled, then stop spouting fantasies!

 

[iron yuppie]

They make the very conscious decision to avoid or question anything that does not fit in their world view. But will not question any headline that makes them FEEL validated about their world view.

You're just describing confirmation bias here. That isn't unique to Trump supporters.

 

[BVS]

You're just describing confirmation bias here. That isn't unique to Trump supporters.

No doubt, it's very prominent in our favorite prodigal son's post as well. It's found in most extremes.

But someone who flat out lies about endorsement letters and saving jobs that were never at risk, things that could easily be proven false, wins the presidency, relied on and deliberately used this as his platform. He could not have won without it, he wouldn't have even made it out of the first few months of the primaries.

There's a reason he chose Bannon, Breibart has made an empire based on this concept.


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