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Old 03-31-2003, 09:21 AM   #16
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I still think that were in Iraq for just for oil.

Britain
Spain
and
The United States and 30 other nations are not in Iraq for-

the liberation of Iraqi ppl
so ppl will no longer have-
-their tongues rip out if they oppose their govt.
- be imprisoned in they have anti govt marches or rallies

-their limbs cut off if accused of a crime
-beatened by Saddams bodyguards for no good reason
-executed if they oppose their leaders
-have their loved ones raped and have to watch to be intimidated


no no no,
were in Iraq
only
for
oil.

I need to go to antiwar- Pro Saddam rally now

thank u
DB9
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Old 03-31-2003, 09:37 AM   #17
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Sarcasm doesn't suit you, Diamond.

And stop insulting anti-war protestors.
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Old 03-31-2003, 10:49 AM   #18
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diamond, that was completely uncalled for and totally childish.
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Old 03-31-2003, 11:47 AM   #19
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If that's why we're in Iraq, diamond, how come it took the deaths of 3000 people to put us in Afghanistan after years of oppression by the Taliban? How come we are doing business with China despite the fact that they do the same things to women, including forced sterilization?

Answer: Well, which country has Starbucks, McDonald's and Coca-Cola and which country does not?

Yes, we do need to help the people of Iraq from these horrible things but how are we helping Iraq by killing thousands of innocent people? What is the difference between Saddam slaughtering Iraq people and the U.S. slaughtering Iraqi people? And why are we abandoning our attacks on Osama bin Laden to go after a guy that may or may not have sort of maybe helped kill innocent Americans?

sorry, I'm playing a bit of a devil's advocate in this but I honestly believe that this war isn't as cut and dry as diamond's argument makes it out to be.
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Old 03-31-2003, 11:54 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
Perhaps Martha is talking more about the fact that most debates regarding many aspects of this war, just go round and round in circles Verte. I don't want to put words in Martha's mouth or anything, but I thought it was more the fight get understanding on a point of view, not necessarily fighting with people here.
Oh, heck, I agree with Martha. These debates are just going in circles. I'm still mainly in the anti-war camp myself; I just don't want to get too knee-jerky about it. I haven't changed my opinion of Rumsfeld in particular in the last six months. They have yet to really sell me on this war. 'Nuff said.
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Old 03-31-2003, 02:11 PM   #21
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Why is the US in Iraq right now? The answer is that we, the people, do not really know. Everyone has a theory, but only our leaders really know for sure. Every time I see one of these debates, I just shake my head, because, while it is very interesting to hear all of these theories, it is ultimately all pure conjecture. This is not a black and white issue, where the answer will be one word like oil, money, politics, humanity, freedom, justice, revenge, or terrorism.

I believe that the biggest problem with the whole war is transparency within the government. Americans are not sure that they can trust their leaders' motives and there is not enough hard evidence to prove their intentions. If we could fully trust our government, then we would take Bush at his word - that this war is for our future protection and to free the Iraqi people from oppression. Since many of us did not vote for Bush (or respect him) in the first place, and we just had an experience with a dishonest President last time around (along with others in the past), it makes perfect sense that everyone questions him.

All we know for sure right now is that we are in the middle of a dangerous war, which could spill over to our neck of the woods at any time in the form of terrorism because of increased anti-US sentiment.
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Old 03-31-2003, 03:43 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hawk269
Why is the US in Iraq right now? The answer is that we, the people, do not really know. Everyone has a theory, but only our leaders really know for sure. Every time I see one of these debates, I just shake my head, because, while it is very interesting to hear all of these theories, it is ultimately all pure conjecture. This is not a black and white issue, where the answer will be one word like oil, money, politics, humanity, freedom, justice, revenge, or terrorism.

I believe that the biggest problem with the whole war is transparency within the government. Americans are not sure that they can trust their leaders' motives and there is not enough hard evidence to prove their intentions. If we could fully trust our government, then we would take Bush at his word - that this war is for our future protection and to free the Iraqi people from oppression. Since many of us did not vote for Bush (or respect him) in the first place, and we just had an experience with a dishonest President last time around (along with others in the past), it makes perfect sense that everyone questions him.

All we know for sure right now is that we are in the middle of a dangerous war, which could spill over to our neck of the woods at any time in the form of terrorism because of increased anti-US sentiment.

We sure don't. I don't feel like I know why my government is doing this stuff. And just because it happens to be my government doesn't mean I support it. I don't question the motives of the troops; I think they are sincere. I question the government's motives. I'm not sure what they're after.
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Old 03-31-2003, 04:44 PM   #23
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Unfortunately, much of this thread can be applied to other Islamic nations. In fact, many women *fear* losing Saddam, because they aren't forced to wear burqas or stay at home all the time. Lest we forget, Saddam is technically a secular dictator. Go across the border to Saudi Arabia and women are in much worse shape.

A biased article based partly in fact, glossing over others.

Melon
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Old 03-31-2003, 05:24 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond

It is known that Matt the author of the thread respects women.
This, at least, Diamond is right about.

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Old 03-31-2003, 05:28 PM   #25
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Old 03-31-2003, 05:35 PM   #26
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To any and all who said the nice things I thank you. I am NOT happy that the title of the thread was changed. I think it reinforces an opinion of me that is not true. I was not "trivilaizing" nor was I "making light of it".

Peace
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Old 03-31-2003, 05:40 PM   #27
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I dont see the big deal with changing the title.

I think this title is more appropriate.

Though personally I didnt find it offensive.
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Old 03-31-2003, 06:16 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
To any and all who said the nice things I thank you. I am NOT happy that the title of the thread was changed. I think it reinforces an opinion of me that is not true. I was not "trivilaizing" nor was I "making light of it".

Peace
I guess not, but I wouldn't worry about it. It's not like you said or did anything that was wrong. I don't think that's being implied by anyone.
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Old 03-31-2003, 09:51 PM   #29
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I understand that the way they treat women in Saudi Arabia may be different than the way we treat women in the U.S. but how much of that is an oppressive society and how much is simply religious beliefs that don't agree with western beliefs? I mean, in the U.S. women get paid a fraction of what men get paid. Most are expected to stay at home to raise children. We have to fight for abortion rights. We don't get medical coverage for birth control while men get covered for Viagra etc. etc. etc. Just because we don't wear veils and can drive cars does not mean we're not discriminated against in this country.

On the flip side of that, Qatar is a great example of a country allowing more rights for women. The king's wife is directly involved in helping to boost the country's educational status in the world and works harder than most First Ladies in the U.S. Women in that country are given many more rights than most in the Middle East. So it then becomes a question of whether it really IS about religion.
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Old 03-31-2003, 10:00 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by sharky

On the flip side of that, Qatar is a great example of a country allowing more rights for women. The king's wife is directly involved in helping to boost the country's educational status in the world and works harder than most First Ladies in the U.S. Women in that country are given many more rights than most in the Middle East. So it then becomes a question of whether it really IS about religion.
60 Minutes did a segment on Qatar about three weeks ago. It was quite informative and I learned quite a bit. If the King does not get killed, he may actually bring about democracy before all is said and done.
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