Trayvon Martin's murderer George Zimmerman is still a free man

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corianderstem said:
Edit: I thought I'd seen something that said he'd had prescription drugs in his system, but fine, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Doesn't matter what I say or think - I'm not on the jury. ;)
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I thought I heard on the radio that he had ADHD drugs in his system? Then again, it's talk radio, if that's not a cesspool, I don't know what is.
 
The only news I caught today was a very brief look at the home page of CNN.com, and I thought that's where I'd seen it.

Not that it really means much.
 
Bottom line: there's no way this man deserves to be on trial for life in jail. If he gets convicted of second degree, it'll be a travesty.
 
Caleb8844 said:
Bottom line: there's no way this man deserves to be on trial for life in jail. If he gets convicted of second degree, it'll be a travesty.
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Not a travesty what happened to Trayvon?

Caleb8844 said:
Evidence: Trayvon Had Bruised Knuckles, Zimmerman Broken Nose

"The medical report from George Zimmerman’s family doctor after the Trayvon Martin shooting shows that Zimmerman’s nose was broken; he also had a pair of black eyes, two lacerations on the back of his head, a bruised upper lip, and a back injury. He was examined by the doctor the day after the shooting. The three-page medical report will likely be used as evidence for the defense.
Meanwhile, the Trayvon Martin autopsy shows that other than his gunshot wound, the only injury on Martin was that the skin on his knuckles was broken. Combined with the evidence from Zimmerman's medical report, the logical conclusion is that Martin was beating up Zimmerman severely before Zimmerman shot him."

Nothing but bruised knuckles, hm..?
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Trayvon may have thought he had to beat this guy up in order to preserve his own life. He may have been standing his ground because he feared imminent harm. And it appears that he was right to feel that way.

I don't understand how you can find it so terribly compelling that Martin beat Zimmerman. He was being followed, he didn't know why, he was scared. . .I don't know that I would have attacked Zimmerman if it were me, but I don't see why the fact that he did so is such a smoking gun with you.
 
Irvine511 said:
To me, this remains primarily a gun issue.

Guns are why small crimes become big murders.
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Agree wholeheartedly.

And as I'd said before, if Martin did beat up Zimmerman...well, the guy was following him for no reason. He could've, and probably should've, just gone home, but he probably felt uneasy and decided to try and get Zimmerman to back off. Many people probably would've reacted similarly if some strange guy was following them.
 
maycocksean said:
Not a travesty what happened to Trayvon?



Trayvon may have thought he had to beat this guy up in order to preserve his own life. He may have been standing his ground because he feared imminent harm. And it appears that he was right to feel that way.

I don't understand how you can find it so terribly compelling that Martin beat Zimmerman. He was being followed, he didn't know why, he was scared. . .I don't know that I would have attacked Zimmerman if it were me, but I don't see why the fact that he did so is such a smoking gun with you.
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A few minutes before shots were fired, there's a recorded 911 call from Zimmerman, saying that he's stopped following Trayvon, and doesn't know where he is. Doesn't sound like Trayvon would have any reason to fear danger.
 
Perhaps your only allowed to claim "Stand Your Ground" if you are armed?

Or if you survive the altercation?
 
Caleb8844 said:
A few minutes before shots were fired, there's a recorded 911 call from Zimmerman, saying that he's stopped following Trayvon, and doesn't know where he is. Doesn't sound like Trayvon would have any reason to fear danger.
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But how does Trayvon know that Martin has stopped following him? Perhaps he was thinking, "man, what if he comes after me again. Better I get him before he gets me."

Or maybe he was just angry about being harassed and lashed out. I guess in that case he deserved to be killed then. . . . :|
 
Judging by the EVIDENCE we have, this is what it sounds like happened, to me: Zimmerman began following Trayvon;
Trayvon noticed Zimmerman followed him, and began to run;
Zimmerman stopped following him, as the police told him to, and lost him;
Trayvon doubled back, and either confronted Zimmerman and had words, or just out and out sucker punched him;
Zimmerman feared for his life and shot.

Can this be contradicted by evidence? Would Zimmerman not be acting in self defense in this situation? If not, would he be guilty of second degree murder, in this situation?
 
maycocksean said:
But how does Trayvon know that Martin has stopped following him? Perhaps he was thinking, "man, what if he comes after me again. Better I get him before he gets me."

Or maybe he was just angry about being harassed and lashed out. I guess in that case he deserved to be killed then. . . . :|
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So Zimmerman decides to follow a 17 year old for a few blocks, I guess he deserves to be beaten to death... :|
 
Jive Turkey said:
You're filling in so much information with no evidence what so ever. There's no point pointing to the little evidence you do have
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The only point I'm filling in is that trayvon possibly attacked Zimmerman first. Everything else is backed up by at least *some* evidence.
 
Caleb8844 said:
Trayvon doubled back, and either confronted Zimmerman and had words, or just out and out sucker punched him;
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You completely made this part up in your mind. You don't know how the actual confrontation started. And this is the key point in your argument
 
Caleb8844 said:
possibly
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Of course it's possible. But there are many different possibilities at this point in the situation. Know what I'm saying?

I'm not taking either side. But there are people constructing scenarios on both sides of the fence with little to back them up
 
Jive Turkey said:
You completely made this part up in your mind. You don't know how the actual confrontation started. And this is the key point in your argument
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If, within a minute or two, I believe, of the conflict, Trayvon had run off out of Zimmerman's sight, how would you assume the conflict began? I am assuming here, and I admitted this was the only part where I was, but it seems to jive (heh.) with the evidence we do have.
 
Caleb8844 said:
If, within a minute or two, I believe, of the conflict, Trayvon had run off out of Zimmerman's sight, how would you assume the conflict began? I am assuming here, and I admitted this was the only part where I was, but it seems to jive (heh.) with the evidence we do have.
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It would make sense if what you're saying happened. There are probably 50 other scenarios that would also make sense. And probably 50 more that don't really make sense, but are possible. That's the key point in the event where who was right and who was wrong is mostly determined. It's a dangerous point to be jumping to conclusions
 
We know that right before the confrontation, Zimmerman lost Trayvon. We know that the only injuries Trayvon had were a bullet wound, and bruised knuckles. We know that Zimmerman had a fractured nose, black eyes, and a head wound. An eye-witness now says that they saw Trayvon on top of Zimmerman, beating him "MMA style." I really don't feel like my version of events is jumping to toooooooo many conclusions.
 
Jive Turkey said:
Could've found him again
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He certainly could've, and that's one reason we'll probably never know for CERTAIN what happened in those few minutes. But IMO that seems unlikely; he'd stopped following him, and Trayvon had run away. I doubt he would've hung up with the police, and managed to run Trayvon down (whom he had no real way of finding) within a minute or two.
 
All it would've taken was to catch a glimpse of him in the distance to continue pursuing. You could very well be right, but there's so little we know and an infinite number of combinations of events at that moment. That's all I'm saying. I mean, there could even be a completely different scenario that still makes Zimmerman seem to be innocent.
 
Jive Turkey said:
All it would've taken was to catch a glimpse of him in the distance to continue pursuing. You could very well be right, but there's so little we know and an infinite number of combinations of events at that moment. That's all I'm saying. I mean, there could even be a completely different scenario that still makes Zimmerman seem to be innocent.
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I can respect this opinion :up: and I'd agree with that. It just bugs me sometimes that so many people seem to believe the only way "justice" can be "served" in this case is if Zimmerman's convicted of murder, and put away for life, when there's really very little evidence to say he's guilty of second degree.
 
Caleb8844 said:
If Zimmerman didn't shoot, and Trayvon beat him to death, what would you say?
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Depends on the circumstance. If Zimmerman had done nothing to provoke Trayvon and he'd beat him to death for the hell of it, Trayvon would absolutely be in the wrong and I would definitely expect him to be punished.

But if he attacked Zimmerman because Zimmerman either was harassing him or perceived to be harassing him, which, again, is likely what he was thinking when he did go after Zimmerman in this situation, then he's just as justified in his response as Zimmerman supposedly is in his, right? I've asked that before in this thread: Zimmerman can "stand his ground" based on the supposed threat Trayvon posed and that's okay, but Trayvon couldn't "stand his ground" based on the supposed threat Zimmerman posed to him?
 
Caleb8844 said:
I can respect this opinion :up: and I'd agree with that. It just bugs me sometimes that so many people seem to believe the only way "justice" can be "served" in this case is if Zimmerman's convicted of murder, and put away for life, when there's really very little evidence to say he's guilty of second degree.
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I agree. It's just too difficult to say right now and all the media attention sure isn't helping people see things objectively. No matter the outcome of the trial, it's going to be a shit storm afterward
 
Moonlit_Angel said:
But if he attacked Zimmerman because Zimmerman either was harassing him or perceived to be harassing him, which, again, is likely what he was thinking when he did go after Zimmerman in this situation, then he's just as justified in his response as Zimmerman supposedly is in his, right? I've asked that before in this thread: Zimmerman can "stand his ground" based on the supposed threat Trayvon posed and that's okay, but Trayvon couldn't "stand his ground" based on the supposed threat Zimmerman posed to him?
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As far as I'm concerned, it's only "standing your ground" if you're being physically harmed. If Trayvon is going "MMA style" on Zimmerman's head, Zimmerman has the right to defend himself; If Zimmerman follows Trayvon for a block and then stops, Trayvon does not have the right to attack.
 
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