Trayvon Martin's murderer George Zimmerman is still a free man

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Manslaughter is a lesser included offense to second-degree murder; there'd be nothing stopping a jury from convicting Zimmerman of the lesser charge, should they reject both his self-defense claim and the prosecution's attempt to prove murder 2. It's possible they deliberately overcharged in an attempt to bait him into a plea deal; though that's unethical, prosecutors do it all the time, often with strong approval from the community which sees it as "tough on crime."

It's also possible Zimmerman's lawyer could skip SYG altogether and just go for self-defense; while that shifts the burden of proof to the defense, it'd also offer the advantage(?) that Zimmerman wouldn't have to take the stand and submit to cross-examination.
 
yes, I agree

looking in here a bit
I had been planning on saying it is not overcharged at all

they can always end up at manslaughter.

I still say Zimmerman the minority American (Latino) is responsible for the unjustified killing of Martin the minority American.

I did see a clip of Zimmerman's court appearance, they must have dubbed it in English. He did not sound or look Latino at all.
 
I don't see how the self-defense defense has any credulity, at least with what we know so far, and even with the latest photographic evidence.

According to the 911 tapes, Zimmerman sees a suspicious-looking Martin and decides to follow him. He calls 911, and the dispatcher tells him to cease following Martin. It appears he didn't heed the dispatcher's advice. We don't know much about what happens next.

I don't know what others might do if they were being followed. It's entirely plausible that Martin defended himself, and hit Zimmerman, causing the blood we saw in those photos. In that case, wouldn't Florida's asinine "Stand Your Ground" law kick in for Martin? Where are his rights to defend himself?

I think Zimmerman walks.
 
BoMac said:
I don't see how the self-defense defense has any credulity
......................
It appears he didn't heed the dispatcher's advice.
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Not according to his story, though. He claims he was dutifully retreating to his vehicle when Martin returned to confront and attack him. And Corey's investigator said at the bond hearing that they have no evidence to disprove that. If you could get a jury to accept Zimmerman's claim of retreat, as well as his claims about the level of force Martin used against him, then you'd have the makings of a solid self-defense case.
 
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Really, no comments on the medical examiner's report on Mr Zimmerman's injuries.

No comments on the marijuana found in Mr Martin's bloodstream.

No comments on the surveillance video of Mr Martin buying his candy.

Have we lost interest as the narrative moves from a hate crime to a confrontation that ended with one of the parties tragically shot dead? :shrug:
 
I've been hearing a lot of new information lately, but hadn't heard about the surveillance video...
 
i just watched it but i might be missing something. granted there's obviously no audio so just going by what i could see, it looked like...someone buying iced tea and candy. he talked to the clerk so it took a little longer, but of course like i said there's no way to tell what was said. but with the body language it didn't look like there was any yelling or anything.

and as for the marijuana, what, are we buying into the myth that it makes people aggressive or something?
 
The only marijuana thing I'm familiar with was the story of Martin being kicked out of school for a period over having some on him. Which most people agree has no relevance to the actual shooting incident. But if he had some in his system the night of the shooting...I don't know how that ties into the situation.

Bottom line, he wasn't armed. Zimmerman was (and has been proven to have an aggressive history). And he's an adult. Martin's a teenager. I have a problem with adults shooting teenagers, sorry.
 
Jive Turkey said:
What does this have to do with anything?
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And why mention that and not the prescription drugs in Zimmerman's system?

Honestly, I don't think Zimmerman is going to be found guilty. And you know what? Fine. That's what the justice system is here for. My outrage, and I think that of many others, was that it took so long for a charge to be filed.

Yeah, yeah "stand your ground" law - but is it so simple as "well, this guy said he acted in self defense, so I guess we should take his word, despite the fact that he wasn't supposed to have a gun as part of the neighborhood watch and the dispatcher told him not to follow the guy." ? No, it is not that simple.

Honestly, this whole thing is just so fucking sad. Zimmerman chose to go out and act upon what he saw as suspicious. Well, maybe he should have just called the cops to say "hey, something doesn't look right here," but he took it upon himself (again, with a gun, which he was not supposed to do). Zimmerman chose to take a gun. Not fine. What could have been nothing more than plain old assault ended with someone dead.
 
And I find it amazing that indy is accusing others of abandoning threads when the going gets tough
 
Yeah, yeah, it's illegal. Fine. It doesn't have anything to do with whether or not Zimmerman shot in self defense.

Are they trying to besmirch his character? Like because he smoked a little weed makes him a thug or a gang-banger? I'm sure that's it, honestly.

I guess that's how it works, because lord knows anyone who might remotely be a "thug" means that they always must be the aggressor in any situation.
 
i'm like cori in that i'm not optimistic that zimmerman will be found guilty. but even if all that happens is this ridiculous law is repealed or a new law is put in place clarifying a lot of things, rather than a blanket "as long as someone steps foot on your property, you can chase them like a wild animal for as long as you choose and shoot them in cold blood and not even be taken downtown for questioning" as it is now, then martin didn't die in vain.

ideally, i'd love it if zimmerman were found guilty and they repealed the law, but i gotta be realistic.
 
corianderstem said:
Are they trying to besmirch his character? Like because he smoked a little weed makes him a thug or a gang-banger? I'm sure that's it, honestly.
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Pretty much, yeah. If that's the case, man, every pot smoker's a thug/gang-banger apparently now. Wow. That's a lot of people with that label.

And he wore a hoodie, too. So he even LOOKS the part! And it's a young black teenager doing all that stuff*! The horror!

*Whether Zimmerman is racist or not, who knows, but please, let's not even try and deny that the coverage by some, as well as the defense of Zimmerman by some, doesn't have a racial element lurking somewhere.

Jive Turkey said:
And I find it amazing that indy is accusing others of abandoning threads when the going gets tough
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Seriously.
 
Moonlit_Angel said:
Pretty much, yeah. If that's the case, man, every pot smoker's a thug/gang-banger apparently now. Wow. That's a lot of people with that label.

And he wore a hoodie, too. So he even LOOKS the part! And it's a young black teenager doing all that stuff*! The horror!

*Whether Zimmerman is racist or not, who knows, but please, let's not even try and deny that the coverage by some, as well as the defense of Zimmerman by some, doesn't have a racial element lurking somewhere.



Seriously.
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The coverage that had racial elements to it was the coverage condemning Zimmerman before the facts were known. That's not even debatable.
 
Caleb8844 said:
Really? It's not logical to think that being under the influence of drugs could possibly lead to making less than stellar decisions?
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If it's true that Zimmerman had prescription drugs in his system at the time, then the same goes for him.
 
Evidence: Trayvon Had Bruised Knuckles, Zimmerman Broken Nose

"The medical report from George Zimmerman’s family doctor after the Trayvon Martin shooting shows that Zimmerman’s nose was broken; he also had a pair of black eyes, two lacerations on the back of his head, a bruised upper lip, and a back injury. He was examined by the doctor the day after the shooting. The three-page medical report will likely be used as evidence for the defense.
Meanwhile, the Trayvon Martin autopsy shows that other than his gunshot wound, the only injury on Martin was that the skin on his knuckles was broken. Combined with the evidence from Zimmerman's medical report, the logical conclusion is that Martin was beating up Zimmerman severely before Zimmerman shot him."

Nothing but bruised knuckles, hm..?
 
That was directed towards the people in the Court of Public Opinion who are going around stating "Martin was smoking pot!" with their pointy fingers of shame.

But I like that a you can come in and explain stuff like that, because it does help clarify some things.

Edit: I thought I'd seen something that said he'd had prescription drugs in his system, but fine, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Doesn't matter what I say or think - I'm not on the jury. ;)
 
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