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Old 03-27-2012, 02:38 PM   #121
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Minored in school, and took an elective that was forensic audio.

I'm sure your elective makes you just as qualified for this as mine does at being an astrophysicist
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Old 03-27-2012, 02:44 PM   #122
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Go ahead and read my other posts

You really think "well, maybe he was blocking the way back to his Mom's house' would stand up in court?? C'mon man. And I'm not picking on Yolland (Yolland is awesome), it was just the most recent
I have no clue what you are going on about. Who is arguing this?


All I was talking about is how the system allows you to string evidence together in order to make your case.


You're going to piece together the 911 calls, you're going to piece together an audio forensic testimony, you're going to piece together his phone call and Zimmerman's account of him running away, you're going to piece together all these facts and put together a timeline. Both sides are, this is how it's done, but you keep pretending that this is all somehow being made up out of thin air.
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Old 03-27-2012, 02:48 PM   #123
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I have no clue what you are going on about. Who is arguing this?
The post that I was responding to that you quoted me on. Do you not even read the post I was responding to before quoting me?
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Old 03-27-2012, 02:50 PM   #124
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So what would the screaming have been about?
Well at least one 911 call mentioned that there were men wrestling, so that part has been in the narrative since the begining, so I have no clue as to why you're asking this.

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I'm sure your elective makes you just as qualified for this as mine does at being an astrophysicist
Oh for fuck sake, that's why I said "a little" and didn't call myself an expert by any means. You're acting like you're arguing with diamond.

But there have been several experts that say this argument is possible and that if you can prove it's too far off from Zimmerman's voice patterns and you can give enough testimony that these characteristics were made by a younger voice then it gives doubt to it being Zimmerman.
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Old 03-27-2012, 02:50 PM   #125
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but you keep pretending that this is all somehow being made up out of thin air.
Apparently you aren't even reading my posts
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Old 03-27-2012, 02:53 PM   #126
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But there have been several experts that say this argument is possible and that if you can prove it's too far off from Zimmerman's voice patterns and you can give enough testimony that these characteristics were made by a younger voice then it gives doubt to it being Zimmerman.
Fair. But if if if. As far as I can tell, no one has done it yet, but you seem to have already decided for yourself
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Old 03-27-2012, 02:54 PM   #127
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Oh for fuck sake, that's why I said "a little" and didn't call myself an expert by any means. You're acting like you're arguing with diamond.
Just a little healthy ribbing. Don't take it so personally
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Old 03-27-2012, 03:03 PM   #128
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Fair. But if if if. As far as I can tell, no one has done it yet, but you seem to have already decided for yourself
I haven't spoken in any absolutes, just stating opinions like everyone else.
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Old 03-27-2012, 03:05 PM   #129
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You really think "well, maybe he was blocking the way back to his Mom's house' would stand up in court??
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But to make assumptions like 'well, he ran at first, so he wouldn't have changed his mind and decided to confront Zimmerman' or 'Maybe Zimmerman was blocking his way back to his Mom's house and looked like he was lying in wait' have no basis in anything. Just because the guy initially ran doesn't mean that he couldn't have turned back around.
You guys are making all kinds of assumptions about this kid's actions based on what is allegedly a 5 year old photo of him. For all we know, he was an asshole. (just as Zimmerman could very well be an asshole)
Whoa, you're really misreading where I was coming from. I said I thought Zimmerman's story really strains credulity, not that I assume it's outside the realm of all possibility. Of course it's possible. I didn't say anything about what I thought would "hold up in court" (if this case ever makes it there, which is the whole point of the protests); anyway, Martin wouldn't be the one being asked to justify his actions in court. And like everyone else following the story, I've seen probably a dozen photos of Trayvon Martin by this point; I'm well aware they're from different times. I'm not the type to make assumptions about someone's character, let alone behavior in a given situation, just because mom has a cute old snapshot to produce.
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Old 03-27-2012, 03:17 PM   #130
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Whoa, you're really misreading where I was coming from. I said I thought Zimmerman's story really strains credulity, not that I assume it's outside the realm of all possibility. Of course it's possible. I didn't say anything about what I thought would "hold up in court" (if this case ever makes it there, which is the whole point of the protests); anyway, Martin wouldn't be the one being asked to justify his actions in court. And like everyone else following the story, I've seen probably a dozen photos of Trayvon Martin by this point; I'm well aware they're from different times. I'm not the type to make assumptions about someone's character, let alone behavior in a given situation, just because mom has a cute old snapshot to produce.
Fair enough. And I probably just jumped on yours because it was the most recent, but it seems so many people have painted Martin as the harmless, skittle eating teenager and Zimmerman as the angry, gun toting racists and have let their ideas of the events be coloured as such. I'm not on either side (I don't even care all that much about it, to be honest), but it's difficult not to be exposed to these things these days.
The 'hold up in court' part was in response to BVS. I know that's not what you were getting at. Didn't mean to have to dragged into that part of the convo.
But anyway, to me, it seems like nearly everyone has made up their minds over what happened and even when new evidence or a new side of the story comes up, they try to fit it in with what they already believe or dismiss it all together. Even the borderline libelous thread title rubs me the wrong way
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Old 03-27-2012, 03:33 PM   #131
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Even the borderline libelous thread title rubs me the wrong way
Have you met deep?
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Old 03-27-2012, 03:38 PM   #132
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hahaha, ya, I know.
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Old 03-27-2012, 03:44 PM   #133
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What I really want to know is, why isn't anyone talking about this chilling detail?

from the Orlando Sentinel article

"With a single punch, Trayvon Martin decked the Neighborhood Watch volunteer who eventually shot and killed the unarmed 17-year-old, then Trayvon climbed on top of George Zimmerman and slammed his head into the sidewalk"

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Old 03-27-2012, 06:06 PM   #134
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Well I don't have any idea exactly what happened because I wasn't there. But I do think it's highly likely that George Zimmerman has incentive to describe a certain version of events. I do know that Trayvon is dead so he can't give his. And I think the media is reporting only one eyewitness so far whose account can back up Zimmerman's in any way. I think it's a 13 year old? Not sure about that. That doesn't matter if the witness is credible. From media reports so far it seems as if the police might have botched elements of the investigation, so that's not going to help.

Just saw this on yahoo.com

The lead homicide investigator in the shooting of unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin recommended that neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter the night of the shooting, multiple sources told ABC News.

But Sanford, Fla., Investigator Chris Serino was instructed to not press charges against Zimmerman because the state attorney's office headed by Norman Wolfinger determined there wasn't enough evidence to lead to a conviction, the sources told ABC News.

Police brought Zimmerman into the station for questioning for a few hours on the night of the shooting, said Zimmerman's attorney, despite his request for medical attention first. Ultimately they had to accept Zimmerman's claim of self defense. He was never charged with a crime.

Serino filed an affidavit on Feb. 26, the night that Martin was shot and killed by Zimmerman, that stated he was unconvinced Zimmerman's version of events.

Zimmerman, 28, claimed he shot Martin, 17, in self defense.

One complicating factor in the investigation was that the first detective to interview Zimmerman about the shooting was a narcotics officer rather than a homicide detective.

The State Attorney's office said only "no comment" when asked about the affidavit today.
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Old 03-27-2012, 07:40 PM   #135
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I agree. Some person following you in a non police vehicle, in the dark (I'm assuming it was completely dark). That neighbor of Zimmerman's who keeps defending him on tv, he said that all that Trayvon had to do was give him his name and justify his presence there, I guess, by saying what he was doing there. Like lawyers have said on tv, you don't even have to give that info to a police officer per the US Constitution. I've had an experience being harassed by a cop while just walking down a street and I regretfully gave him my name, only because I know how some of them tend to react when you refuse to follow their "orders". Small town cops with nothing else to do.
Agreed.

Besides that, as stated, he was there to see his dad. He had a very logical reason to be there, 'cause he knew someone there. It's not like he was walking around peeping in people's windows at random or something. Why should he have needed to justify his being there to anyone else?

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Anyway, the whole pot thing..and apparently his Facebook page had some photos that some people are calling "menacing" that have been taken down. I know nothing about the accuracy of that. One thing I read said he had gold teeth? Apparently that makes you a thug and a criminal.
I guess, apparently . Boy, going by that logic, tons of young people in my town are likely criminals, then.

And posing all tough and cool on Facebook? Have the people who are freaking about that LOOKED at Facebook? It's kind of a common activity.

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What could have avoided the whole thing was Zimmerman backing off and not following Trayvon, like he was instructed to do.
Yes. One of the calls does have a 911 operator warning him not to follow the guy. He should have done that, and this all could've been sorted out peacefully (relatively so, at least) in a few minutes' time as a horrible misunderstanding.

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That is the account Zimmerman gave police, and much of it has been corroborated by witnesses, authorities say. There have been no reports that a witness saw the initial punch Zimmerman told police about.
This is another problem. Nobody saw the initial punch, and people supposedly saw the last of the fight before the gunshot. We're going by what witnesses heard, mostly, and chances are some of them are probably picking their sides already, so we're never going to get accurate accounts from them. Further proof why witness testimony is difficult to use in court cases.

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On Feb. 26, when Zimmerman first spotted Trayvon, he called police and reported a suspicious person, describing Trayvon as black, acting strangely and perhaps on drugs.
This is telling enough right here. What was he doing that was considered "acting strangely", and how did he theorize the kid was "perhaps on drugs"?

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Zimmerman got out of his SUV to follow Trayvon on foot. When a dispatch employee asked Zimmerman if he was following the 17-year-old, Zimmerman said yes. The dispatcher told Zimmerman he did not need to do that.
Exactly. Why didn't he just stay on the phone with the 911 operator then and relay any more information about the kid to them and let the police deal with it. What exactly was he hoping to achieve by following Trayvon, if he'd caught up with him, what was he planning to do after that? Confront the kid? Try and make a "citizen's arrest"? Search him for the alleged drugs? What? That's what I'd be curious to know.

Again, even if his account is more along the lines of what happened, he still started it by following the kid and making assumptions instead of just holding back and letting more experienced people handle the situation. He has a history of harassing his neighbors and 911 with calls about activity in his neighborhood. If Trayvon did attack him, that was wrong, he shouldn't have done that, he should have just gone home and ignored Zimmerman, maybe told his dad that the guy had been following and harassing him, and then they could've dealt with it from there.

But there was no need for Zimmerman to pull out a gun and shoot the kid, and none of this would've happened if he'd listened to the 911 operator in the first place. He's still in the wrong.
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