Trayvon Martin's murderer George Zimmerman is still a free man - Page 62 - U2 Feedback

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Old 07-18-2013, 05:12 PM   #916
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there is a huge difference between following someone and reporting to 911 what you see

Yes...the difference between life and death.

Zimmerman didn't need to strike any punches. He had a gun. Something that might have
prompted Martin's assault, along with stalking.
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Old 07-18-2013, 07:59 PM   #917
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Had TM just told Zimmerman to back off - or had he ignored Zimmerman and went home - there would have been no tragedy.
That's a rather bold assumption.
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Instead - the evidence supports that he waited for Zimmerman to catch up to him, he jumped him, he broke his nose, and then had him pinned to the ground while continuing the assault.
The evidence supports that "he waited for Zimmerman to catch up to him"? Where is this evidence?

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However - the inciting incident, the point of no return, the line in the sand where hypothetical ends and the tragedy begins is when Martin jumped Zimmerman.
And how is it that the line in the sand, basically the only piece of the puzzle that's missing, hinges on a known liar and is believed as fact and evidence by so many?

This is honestly the only part of this whole case that really upsets me. I see all these conservatives that preach skepticism when it comes to science but they are all duped to believe that there is somehow evidence that makes this missing puzzle piece absolute in their mind. It seems to me a lot of people are putting a lot down on the word of a known liar, that makes me wonder why
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Old 07-19-2013, 02:44 PM   #918
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"cracka"
And we know he said this based on. . . .


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Again, apologies as I'm not as familiar with the facts - how was it established that TM jumped Zimmerman? Eye witness accounts?
I've not yet had this question answered to my satisfaction.
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Old 07-19-2013, 04:15 PM   #919
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And we know he said this based on. . . .
Rachel Jeantel




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I've not yet had this question answered to my satisfaction.
It seems the prosecution's star witness, Rachel Jeantel, believes "Trayvon hit first" and there was also no bruising/marks on Trayvon (from a fight).

I concede - this is circumstantial. However, it does line up with Zimmerman's story and it is difficult to see how a grown man could get his nose broken, head beaten, and helplessly pinned - without leaving a single mark on the other person - unless he was "jumped". But it is possible I suppose.

What is not really disputed is that TM was winning the fight, and not stopping. As mentioned before - he had at this point crossed the line into felony assault against Zimmerman. There was a man yelling "help" in the background of the 911 calls - it is also difficult to imagine it was anyone other than the man that was bleeding and pinned. You don't cry like that if you are winning the fight.

The other thing I thought was interesting is that when police lied and said they had the whole fight on videotape, Zimmerman seemed relieved and grateful.

I do feel the jury was correct to acquit Zimmerman of the charges he faced - However, I agree with many in this forum that it is ridiculous that Neighborhood Watch can walk around armed. While I do believe in the right to bear arms (non-assault type) to protect your home - I do not think this right extends to walking around the neighborhood. In my opinion - the only people that should be allowed to carry weapons are the military (on-base), law enforcement, and certain security jobs (armed cars, banks, nuclear power plants...etc). I am hopeful this case - if nothing else - helps tighten the laws that allow average citizens to carry concealed weapons.
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Old 07-19-2013, 04:36 PM   #920
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Rachel Jeantel
Fair enough. To be honest, I did not watch the trial or follow it very closely. I can see where that might be to my disadvantage now.
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Old 07-19-2013, 05:44 PM   #921
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It seems the prosecution's star witness, Rachel Jeantel, believes "Trayvon hit first" and there was also no bruising/marks on Trayvon (from a fight).
Is this suppose to mean something?
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I concede - this is circumstantial. However, it does line up with Zimmerman's story and it is difficult to see how a grown man could get his nose broken, head beaten, and helplessly pinned - without leaving a single mark on the other person - unless he was "jumped". But it is possible I suppose.
It's a shame that speculation and circumstantial evidence carry so much weight in this mess.
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Old 07-19-2013, 08:05 PM   #922
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Is this suppose to mean something?

It's a shame that speculation and circumstantial evidence carry so much weight in this mess.
When prosecution and defense witnesses align on a factual element, what does it say about the speculation that something else happened?
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Old 07-19-2013, 08:31 PM   #923
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It's a shame that speculation and circumstantial evidence carry so much weight in this mess.
Well, true. In this forum we've used speculation to carry on a discussion, and try to guess what likely happened based on the evidence we've seen in the trial and through the information released via the press.

To me - the key is the voice crying out repeatedly "Help!....Help!....Help!"

So what do we know was happening at this moment...

We know for sure that Zimmerman's back was wet, was bleeding on the back of the head, and had a broken nose. An eyewitness also saw TM punching down on Zimmerman "MMA" style. Also - the forensics demonstrated that the bullet went through TM's sweater in a way that could only occur from leaning forward.

Also - the dispatcher said to Zimmerman, "we don't you need you to do that" after the dispatcher heard the wind in the background and asked Zimmerman if he was following the suspect. In other words - Zimmerman did not disregard the dispatcher's advice - instead - was heading back to his vehicle to meet the cops (he told the dispatcher he would meet them at his truck).
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Old 07-19-2013, 11:42 PM   #924
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And a gun turned a fistfight into a death.

It's the guns and our stupid, insane gun laws that leave the rest of the world shaking its collective head at us.
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Old 07-20-2013, 12:08 AM   #925
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Not saying you're wrong or right but it's unfair to jump to that conclusion. I could just as easily say that without the gun someone still would have died. And there's no basis for that, it is something I don't think we will ever know.
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Old 07-20-2013, 08:02 AM   #926
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Not saying you're wrong or right but it's unfair to jump to that conclusion. I could just as easily say that without the gun someone still would have died. And there's no basis for that, it is something I don't think we will ever know.
We know an unarmed person was shot to death.

We don't know that TM would have beaten GZ to death. Takes a lot to do so. And perhaps these "MMA" accusations were because GZ was packing and TM was scared.

It's the guns.
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Old 07-20-2013, 12:07 PM   #927
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When prosecution and defense witnesses align on a factual element, what does it say about the speculation that something else happened?
There was alignment on a factual element regarding how this started? Where?
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Old 07-20-2013, 12:11 PM   #928
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Well, true. In this forum we've used speculation to carry on a discussion, and try to guess what likely happened based on the evidence we've seen in the trial and through the information released via the press.

To me - the key is the voice crying out repeatedly "Help!....Help!....Help!"

So what do we know was happening at this moment...

We know for sure that Zimmerman's back was wet, was bleeding on the back of the head, and had a broken nose. An eyewitness also saw TM punching down on Zimmerman "MMA" style. Also - the forensics demonstrated that the bullet went through TM's sweater in a way that could only occur from leaning forward.
No one is disputing this, but none of this tells me how it started.

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Also - the dispatcher said to Zimmerman, "we don't you need you to do that" after the dispatcher heard the wind in the background and asked Zimmerman if he was following the suspect. In other words - Zimmerman did not disregard the dispatcher's advice - instead - was heading back to his vehicle to meet the cops (he told the dispatcher he would meet them at his truck).
This seems to contradict what you stated earlier about Martin waiting for Zimmerman to catch up to him???
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Old 07-20-2013, 01:43 PM   #929
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This seems to contradict what you stated earlier about Martin waiting for Zimmerman to catch up to him???
How so? Martin had "disappeared" for several minutes - even though his home was only about 30 seconds from the the place he was last scene. Zimmerman went into the general direction looking for a street sign to give the dispatcher the exact location of where he last saw Martin - when the dispatcher told Zimmerman he shouldn't follow - he turned back around toward his truck to meet the police (which he told the dispatcher he was doing). He was on his way back toward his truck that Martin "appeared" and the fight occurred.

Since he was less than 30 seconds from his home, and Zimmerman was well behind him at this point (and still in the truck) it is obvious Martin decided not to go home, but remain near the "T-section" for several minutes until Zimmerman walked through the area to the street - then came back through the area toward his truck.

Whether Martin was hiding can't be proven - but it's fact based on the phone records of Zimmerman and Martin that Martin remained in the "T-section" area for almost 4 minutes instead of simply going home (if he was truly afraid for his life - he already had Zimmerman beaten on the the path home). This just adds yet more weight the self-defense claim.
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Old 07-20-2013, 04:41 PM   #930
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Well - anyone is allowed to be suspicious of anything.

I reference the clothing as evidence that seems to point that TM had the character of a young man/older teen that desired to be a "gangsta" - and not only did he want to look the part, he wanted to play the part (based on the texts and photos on his phone) - and this is what motivated him to jump the "cracka" Zimmerman - which eventually led to his being shot.
I read things in here, and I just throw my hands up and walk away

my opinion is that many of the posts in here, show a clear non-rational bias.
I think it would be pointless to take each one on.
However I have seen you engage in thoughtful, reflective discussion in the past and (like myself ) sometimes change an opinion.


Consider this incident at the onset.

party one is standing in the club house area around 7 pm talking on the phone, listening to an mp3. As a lawful resident in that community he was doing nothing wrong or even suspicious. If a police man drove by, what to you think that police man would have done?

party two is driving out of the complex sees party one in the common area, which every resident is lawfully entitled to be occupying.
GZ based not on behavior, but only appearance judges him a 'fucking punk that always gets away'.

when did TM call GZ a 'cacka' ? Was that based on appearance or behavior?

Only after GZ had stalked him and stared him down for several minutes for no good or legal reason.
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