Trayvon Martin's murderer George Zimmerman is still a free man - Page 60 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-18-2013, 01:47 AM   #886
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
AEON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 02:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
There is so much wrong with what you wrote here.
Do you want to rephrase or retract any of it?
Have you read Martin's texts? Have you heard the testimony from his best friend? If so - you obviously heard/read that Martin desired to be a "gangsta"? He even had a pair of fake gold teeth to look the part.

As much as it may pain many people to understand - if you project the image of a "gangsta" (and it is a fact that TM desired this image) then a neighborhood watch captain just might think you are actually the very thing you are pretending to be.

If TM was wearing khakis, North Face jacket, and holding an umbrella - I believe Zimmerman would have ignored him. Sad? Maybe. True? Certainly.
__________________

__________________
AEON is offline  
Old 07-18-2013, 08:32 AM   #887
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
BEAL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,588
Local Time: 09:31 PM
That's the same logic as the "well the lady was wearing a revealing dress, she was kind of asking for it".

While certain dress attire can draw more attention than others, to say that if Martin would have dressed more preppy this would have been avoided is just wrong and sad viewpoint to have.
__________________

__________________
BEAL is online now  
Old 07-18-2013, 09:19 AM   #888
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,296
Local Time: 04:31 PM
It also strikes me as not that different of an outfit than what a lot of teenage boys of his age would wear, regardless of skin colour. Now that school is out, when I go out for a late evening bike ride, I literally see hordes of young teenage boys in parks and by corner stores, etc in hoodies and it's like 100 degrees outside. I don't immediately think "thugs!" or "criminals!" though I really do want to give them a pair of suspenders for those pants.
__________________
anitram is offline  
Old 07-18-2013, 09:58 AM   #889
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 01:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AEON View Post
Have you read Martin's texts? Have you heard the testimony from his best friend? If so - you obviously heard/read that Martin desired to be a "gangsta"? He even had a pair of fake gold teeth to look the part.
For those who convicted Zimmerman of murder back in March 2012, such facts are irrelevant.

Such a mindset makes the perfect foot soldier of the racial profiteers.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 07-18-2013, 10:05 AM   #890
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 01:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVS View Post
I have to wonder if this is true. If so why are there so many inexperienced vigilantes? Maybe something should be done about neighborhood watch officials? I think his pursuit probably makes this case somewhat rare, I would think, if not then I think we may have a wannabecop problem in this country and we're going to end up with a lot of innocent dead people.
I should have been clearer. I was referencing long standing legal concepts such as assault, battery, and self defense - stuff that, unfortunately, continues to occur in all corners of the globe.

In this case, the Martin family already settled their claim against the Home Owners Association. That matter addressed the culpability of neighborhood watch officials for their supervision/control over Zimmerman.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 07-18-2013, 10:24 AM   #891
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,296
Local Time: 04:31 PM
Speaking of neighbourhood watch - is there a material difference in what this means in the US versus, say Canada? Honestly, what I'm accustomed to are basically elderly busybodies who sit on their porch most of the day and know the comings and goings of everyone on the street. I'm reminded of one of my cousins who got married some 4 or 5 years ago, and at the wedding, an elderly neighbour (who was part of neighbourhood watch) commented that "it's about time, I've seen that boy climbing over their backyard fence since they were in 11th grade".

I personally find it terrifying that there would be essentially untrained people roaming the streets with guns stuffed down the back of their pants.
__________________
anitram is offline  
Old 07-18-2013, 10:45 AM   #892
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
AEON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 02:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BEAL View Post

While certain dress attire can draw more attention than others, to say that if Martin would have dressed more preppy this would have been avoided is just wrong and sad viewpoint to have.
Our clothing is a form of communication. It can communicate things like modesty, wealth, poverty, religion, favorite sports teams, bands, politics...

I will not claim it is always accurate.

However, I think that by attempting to look like a "gangsta" - TM drew attention - and in this case, suspicion. I am not saying that it means a wanna "gangsta" deserves to be shot on the spot - only that I'm sure many suburban homeowners would feel much comfortable with the black "preppie" versus a white "gangsta" walking between their homes.

EDIT: Also - I'm sure Zimmerman would have reported and followed a white "skinhead" as well.
__________________
AEON is offline  
Old 07-18-2013, 10:47 AM   #893
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
AEON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 02:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anitram View Post
I personally find it terrifying that there would be essentially untrained people roaming the streets with guns stuffed down the back of their pants.
I don't think this is the norm.

Most neighborhood watches seem to have been replaced with ubiquitous cell phones (everyone can film or call police).
__________________
AEON is offline  
Old 07-18-2013, 10:53 AM   #894
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 01:31 PM
After reviewing programs for Los Angeles, my hometown and guidelines from the California Attorney General, the core function of the neighborhood watch is to provide organized information flow to local police.

As you can imagine, once crime does occur, there is far more communication between neighbors. Social media serves this purpose as well (Nextdoor, a geographic focused Facebook, is a great platform).

Sadly, crime becomes a unifying factor among neighbors. Unlike my day growing up in the mid-west where you knew all your neighbors, in California, people tend to limit their neighborly interaction (pull the car into the garage, close the garage door, then get out of the car). It takes the common enemy of crime to get people talking to each other and looking out for each other.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 07-18-2013, 11:28 AM   #895
45:33
 
cobl04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: East Point to Shaolin
Posts: 55,041
Local Time: 08:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anitram View Post
Speaking of neighbourhood watch - is there a material difference in what this means in the US versus, say Canada? Honestly, what I'm accustomed to are basically elderly busybodies who sit on their porch most of the day and know the comings and goings of everyone on the street. I'm reminded of one of my cousins who got married some 4 or 5 years ago, and at the wedding, an elderly neighbour (who was part of neighbourhood watch) commented that "it's about time, I've seen that boy climbing over their backyard fence since they were in 11th grade".

I personally find it terrifying that there would be essentially untrained people roaming the streets with guns stuffed down the back of their pants.
Over here it's just a pointless sticker on the outside of someone's house. Literally meaningless and pointless.

__________________
cobl04 is offline  
Old 07-18-2013, 12:00 PM   #896
Resident Photo Buff
Forum Moderator
 
Diemen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Somewhere in middle America
Posts: 13,238
Local Time: 03:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AEON View Post

Our clothing is a form of communication. It can communicate things like modesty, wealth, poverty, religion, favorite sports teams, bands, politics...

I will not claim it is always accurate.

However, I think that by attempting to look like a "gangsta" - TM drew attention - and in this case, suspicion. I am not saying that it means a wanna "gangsta" deserves to be shot on the spot - only that I'm sure many suburban homeowners would feel much comfortable with the black "preppie" versus a white "gangsta" walking between their homes.

EDIT: Also - I'm sure Zimmerman would have reported and followed a white "skinhead" as well.
I'm going to have to side with BEAL on this one - placing part of the blame on Trayvon's attire seems to me to be exactly like blaming a rape victim for wearing revealing clothing.

There is a picture of Trayvon after the shooting floating around the net, (I'm on my phone and don't want to go through the hassle of finding the link and copying it over), and his clothes looked like normal teenager clothes. Not even all that baggy, really. That a hoodie and baggy pants now equals "gangsta" is completely ridiculous.
__________________
Diemen is offline  
Old 07-18-2013, 12:09 PM   #897
War Child
 
Caleb8844's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 662
Local Time: 03:31 PM
I could be wrong, but I think what people are trying to say is that, while his way of dressing is in no way a problem or deserving of death, THIS is what caused Zimmerman to profile him, not his race. I don't think anyone's blaming his clothes for this tragedy.
__________________
Caleb8844 is offline  
Old 07-18-2013, 12:19 PM   #898
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,296
Local Time: 04:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb8844 View Post
I don't think anyone's blaming his clothes for this tragedy.
Except for Geraldo.
__________________
anitram is offline  
Old 07-18-2013, 12:34 PM   #899
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 01:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diemen View Post
I'm going to have to side with BEAL on this one - placing part of the blame on Trayvon's attire seems to me to be exactly like blaming a rape victim for wearing revealing clothing.

There is a picture of Trayvon after the shooting floating around the net, (I'm on my phone and don't want to go through the hassle of finding the link and copying it over), and his clothes looked like normal teenager clothes. Not even all that baggy, really. That a hoodie and baggy pants now equals "gangsta" is completely ridiculous.
NO ONE is suggesting that Martin "deserved" to be shot because of his hoodie.

It is perfectly reasonable to say that Martin's attire was a factor in causing Zimmerman to leave his house. Obscuring one's identity is a common tactic of a person intent on committing a crime. It created a reasonable suspicion. But, it stops there. The hoodies is not a factor in the subsequent physical assault and shooting.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 07-18-2013, 12:54 PM   #900
Resident Photo Buff
Forum Moderator
 
Diemen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Somewhere in middle America
Posts: 13,238
Local Time: 03:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nbcrusader View Post

Obscuring one's identity is a common tactic of a person intent on committing a crime. It created a reasonable suspicion. But, it stops there. The hoodies is not a factor in the subsequent physical assault and shooting.
Covering one's head is also a common tactic of a person who doesn't want to get wet in the rain. Wearing a hoodie is also a common tactic of teens. I think way too much credence is being given to Trayvon's attire as a legitimate source of suspicion for Zimmerman. Zimmerman was already patrolling the streets before he saw Martin. He was looking for trouble and decided Martin was it. And his cause for reasonable suspicion is because a teenage boy was wearing a hoodie in the rain?
__________________

__________________
Diemen is offline  
 

Tags
george zimmerman, stand your ground, trayvon martin

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:31 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com