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Old 03-23-2012, 07:35 PM   #76
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No, we are saying that if it was a white kid he would not have even gotten shot.

Fuck Newt Gingrich.
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Old 03-23-2012, 07:52 PM   #77
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*Puts head in hands*

Oh, for the love of all that's good, Gingrich, really?

I heard those very same remarks and found absolutely nothing offensive in them, nor did I hear anything even remotely close to what you apparently heard.

As usual, he's a fucking hypocritical idiot.
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Old 03-23-2012, 10:18 PM   #78
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dog whistle, blown hard

Louisiana primary tomorrow, one last chance to get the angry white southern voters.
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Old 03-23-2012, 10:21 PM   #79
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Good point.

If that's indeed the case, hey, what better way to help one's campaign than to play politics with a tragic story about a teenager's death?
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Old 03-23-2012, 10:51 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by deep
dog whistle, blown hard

Louisiana primary tomorrow, one last chance to get the angry white southern voters.
There are plenty of those left to exploit in my great state, if the primary lasts through whenever Texas's vote has been delayed to now in order to allow the GOP how to rig as many Texas Republicans into the House as possible without getting shut down by the Justice Department or Supreme Court.
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Old 03-23-2012, 11:13 PM   #81
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Old 03-24-2012, 03:24 PM   #82
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Rush Limbaugh said
"If I had a son he would look like George Zimmerman."
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Old 03-25-2012, 02:30 AM   #83
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I got into it with someone (not on this forum) who was basically defending Zimmerman and say if Martin didn't dress in a "punk ass hoodie" then this wouldn't have happened. He said he wasn't going to "play the race card but..." Generally when I hear someone say that, they're going to place the race card. He went on to to say that had he been Zimmerman, if he saw black males in hoodies he would ask why they were there... I asked if he would confront them if they were white males in hoodies.. no response.

My heart goes out to Trayvon's parents and friends. How horrible... and that law needs to go the way of the dinosaur.
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Old 03-25-2012, 03:13 AM   #84
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Sounds like a fountain of intelligent thought, that guy you were debating with. Sheesh.
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Old 03-25-2012, 09:52 AM   #85
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I read in the paper that Zimmerman's dad claimed his son isn't racist. Because he has a lot of black friends.


Now where have I heard that argument before.....
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Old 03-25-2012, 12:12 PM   #86
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How can America claim to be civilized when citizens are allowed to kill each other?
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Old 03-25-2012, 06:44 PM   #87
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What the President said, I thought it was beautiful. Newt was taking a huge leap in twisting his words there, and I'm just so tired of his bs. He's such an ass.
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Old 03-25-2012, 09:12 PM   #88
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He said he wasn't going to "play the race card but..."
whenever anyone says anything negative, but...it means exactly the opposite. "i'm not racist, but..." "i'm not homophobic, but..." and yet these comments are always followed by, shockingly, racist and homophobic comments. they seem to think by prefacing it with that, that it somehow excuses comments like that.
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Old 03-25-2012, 10:17 PM   #89
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Miami Herald (column), Mar. 24
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The killing of Trayvon Martin was only the most infamous Florida homicide complicated by the legal insanity known as “Stand Your Ground.”
Quote:
Like Trayvon Martin, Pedro Roteta was pursued down a city street by his killer. On Jan. 25, Roteta had apparently been trying to steal the radio from a truck owned by Greyston Garcia, parked outside his apartment in southwest Miami. Truck burglary’s a crime of course, but not a capital case. Not before 2005.

Garcia grabbed a large knife and chased the 26-year-old Roteta down the block. He caught up with Roteta, who was unarmed except for an unopened pocketknife in his pocket, and stabbed him to death. The confrontation was captured on a surveillance video. Miami police were not nearly as cautious as the cops in Sanford. Garcia was arrested and charged with second-degree murder. But under the peculiarities of the stand-your-ground statute, the case never went to trial. [Miami-Dade Circuit Judge Beth] Bloom decided Wednesday that Garcia was immune from prosecution. This aspect of the law drives prosecutors to distraction. The Florida Supreme Court, trying to sort out the ineptly written law (a piece of boilerplate legislation contrived by the NRA) ruled that the immunity conferred by stand-your-ground was for a judge, not a jury, to decide. Judge Bloom decided, under the squishy language of the statute, that Garcia “reasonably believed it is necessary” to use deadly force “to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.”
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Stand Your Ground preempted any thought of prosecuting a former Broward County deputy sheriff who pumped four rounds into an aggressive panhandler outside a Miami Lakes ice cream parlor in January.

The month before, Broward Circuit Judge Ilona Holmes bypassed a jury and acquitted Nour Badi Jarkas, 54, of Plantation, who had shot his estranged wife’s boyfriend four times inside her house in 2009. Judge Holmes cited Stand Your Ground, saying, “nothing was presented...to rebut the reasonableness of the fear that [Jarkas] testified that he had.”

In 2009, after two FPL [Florida Power & Light Company] workers, in their blue shirts and pith helmets, approached Ernesto Che Vino’s mobile home in Northwest Miami-Dade to shut off the juice, Vino came storming out of the house with his rifle, cuffing one of the workers on the head then firing shots as the two ran for their truck. Miami-Dade Circuit Judge John W. Thornton, “following the dictates of Stand Your Ground,” decided that Vino’s claim that he feared for his life was not unreasonable. He tossed two counts of armed assault and one count of improper exhibition of a firearm.

Essentially, the law requires a judge to read the mind of any assailant who claims self-defense, no matter how outrageous the circumstances. Jurors, of course, would do a fine job of sorting out truly reasonable fears from all this hokum. No mind reading required.
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It’s not as if prior to 2005 prosecutors were ringing up convictions on innocent self-defense claimants. In 1986, in South Florida’s most famous case of self-defence, a Miami-Dade grand jury refused to indict Prentice Rasheed, a crime-weary Overtown merchant who had booby-trapped his shop windows and managed to electrocute a burglar. Rather than a criminal defendant, Rasheed became a local folk hero. Nor was there a public outcry to loosen the definition of self defense back in 2005. The law was just another of a series of overreaching and dangerous statutes passed in homage to the National Rifle Association. Some 23 other states have passed variations of Stand Your Ground. The NRA is pushing the law in other states, but perhaps the Trayvon Martin tragedy will slow the gun lobby’s momentum.

Miami Herald (op-ed), Mar. 25
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Chances state lawmakers will strike the deadly force law from the books: Nil. Chances it will be amended: Slight. Chances the NRA will get to boast of a win: High.
Quote:
In the past decade, the NRA successfully took on: the Florida Chamber of Commerce over the right to allow employees to store locked guns in the cars at workplace parking lots; police departments that compiled data on firearms purchases at pawn shops; adoption agencies that would ask prospective parents about guns; environmentalists who wanted to sue over gun-range lead clean-up; local governments that want to regulate guns; doctors who ask patients about firearms, and colleges that ban firearms on campus. The college gun law is its only [Florida] legislative loss—for now.

Trayvon’s hometown senator, Miami Gardens Democrat Oscar Braynon, is bringing the fight to the NRA—a rarity in the state Capitol—by simply asking for legislative hearings into Stand Your Ground. The senator also wants the law changed to make sure that a suspect can’t be immune from arrest if he pursues another, provokes a confrontation and then uses force. That could have happened in Trayvon’s Feb. 26 shooting death by neighbor George Zimmerman.
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The law’s authors say the police are misconstruing Stand Your Ground. But Rep. Dennis Baxley said he doesn’t want the law touched. “There’s nothing in the law that says you can pursue and confront people,” said Baxley, R-Ocala. “There’s nothing to clarify.”

The NRA’s lead lobbyist, Marion Hammer, has praised the law for giving citizens the right to defend themselves. “It has become very emotional and political,” she told the Tallahassee Democrat. “Politicians who say we need to rewrite the law are politically grandstanding.” She also has decried the “rush to judgment” and the use of “one incident” to change the law.

Hammer is an expert in just that type of emotional politics where one anecdote leads to a wholesale change in law. In 2005, for instance, she got the Stand Your Ground law passed based on just one case, that of 77 year-old James Workman. He shot and killed an intruder in his hurricane-ravaged home near Pensacola. Workman was never charged. The state attorney specifically said Workman had a right to defend himself on his property—a concept known as the “Castle Doctrine,” a reference to the old saying that “a man’s home is his castle.” But Hammer persuaded legislators that citizens needed to have the doctrine enshrined in statute. And they decided to expand the right to use deadly force almost anywhere a person feels reasonably threatened.


Hammer’s successes are a result of her tenacity and the fact that gun owners are passionate. They email. And they vote.

In nearly every debate, gun-control advocates have predicted “blood in the streets” and a “wild West” atmosphere. But violent crime has fallen 19% in Florida and firearm crimes have declined 9% between 2005 and 2010 (the most recent year for which crime data is fully available). Still, murders increased overall by 12%--to 987--and the reports of justifiable homicides have tripled, according to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.

Braynon is up against more than just the NRA. There’s a cultural divide between the constituents of rural white representatives like Baxley and the constituents of urban black senators like Braynon, who are outnumbered in the Legislature. “For many of the people in my district, only criminals and police carry guns,” he said. “In North Florida, it’s a whole different story.”
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Old 03-25-2012, 11:18 PM   #90
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In the past decade, the NRA successfully took on: the Florida Chamber of Commerce over the right to allow employees to store locked guns in the cars at workplace parking lots; police departments that compiled data on firearms purchases at pawn shops; adoption agencies that would ask prospective parents about guns; environmentalists who wanted to sue over gun-range lead clean-up; local governments that want to regulate guns; doctors who ask patients about firearms, and colleges that ban firearms on campus. The college gun law is its only [Florida] legislative loss—for now.
I'm staying the hell away from Florida. Good god.

Those things you shared perfectly illustrate the illogical nature of this law. "Self-defense" can be used in the absolute loosest of terms with this. There are indeed times when it's perfectly acceptable to fight back. If someone is grabbing me and trying to kidnap me, for instance, hell, yes, I'm using every method possible to get them to stop.

But if I were to just go around attacking every man who I think might pose even the slightest of threats, that would be...well, insane.
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