Trayvon Martin's murderer George Zimmerman is still a free man - Page 37 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-07-2013, 10:40 PM   #541
Blue Crack Addict
 
PhilsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Standing on the shore, facing east.
Posts: 18,885
Local Time: 02:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase View Post
Can we retweet posts yet? Cause, yea... this times infinity
I work in a factory where I am the only person who doesn't own a gun. I am literally surrounded everyday by gun enthusiasts. They're the types who order gun magazines, go shoot casually on weekends, hunt deer and other things, purchase guns and ammunition as a hobby. They come into work and talk about some of the new things they've seen lately they want to try buying. And you know what? I trust them. These guys are studies. They love guns but know so much that they're not irresponsible. They don't arm themselves in anticipation of thugs robbing them, because they know better. They know the point of guns and simply know that it's not an issue that enters the home like others think it does. So their lifestyle as gun hobbyists has never bothered me. It would be silly; a waste of time and energy for me.

But I came back to work this summer and saw that one of the older guys at our shop tacked a picture near his workplace that was the equivalent of an internet meme. It essentially said "You're an idiot if you think gun legislation will keep guns out of the hands of criminals." I saw it a few days after I got back and started laughing at it. He saw me doing this and said, "What, you don't agree?" I said, "It's not that I don't agree, it's that I think the premise is asinine." He asked what I meant. I told him: "If you are going to group people into the categories of criminals and non-criminals, you're entirely missing the point. Not just with gun laws, but with laws in general." And he said, "What, you don't think criminals can buy guns on the black market?" I said, "I don't think people are criminals or non-criminals." He said, "You're being silly. If a criminal wants a gun, he can get a gun." To which I replied, "No. Do you think that kid in Connecticut was going to go find gangbangers to buy an AR-15 from? Or do you think he used it because it just so happened his mom had it for no other reason than the law told her she could?"

It pains me that my clear and logical argument never made waves there, but it still holds merit. Adam Lanza lit up those kids because of our lax gun laws. His mother only had crazy weapons because our lax laws allowed her to. He only used them because of that. There is no other reason. This isn't some guy who "would have found another way" to get these types of rifles. He only used them because our laws allowed his mother easy access. She didn't buy them for self defense; she bought them because, "Hey, why not?" I may take it personally because, as some know here, one of my closest friends lost his cousin at Sandy Hook. But this seems so obvious to me. I don't understand anyone who defends the laws that allowed it to happen. They are just people who are refusing to think about it, as far as I am concerned. And I don't intend to allow such thinking to happen unchallenged any longer.
__________________

__________________
PhilsFan is online now  
Old 07-08-2013, 12:32 AM   #542
Paper Gods
Forum Administrator
 
KhanadaRhodes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: a vampire in the limousine
Posts: 60,609
Local Time: 01:11 PM
the one thing i've never got with any of that rationale is this: okay, you think it's your right to own a gun, fine. that is your legal right, i'm not arguing that or saying it isn't. but why does an ordinary, average citizen need an assault rifle? "because they're legal" is not a valid reason. no one needs a gun like that. a soldier at war? that's irrelevant. but an average citizen? no.

it isn't the 1700s anymore. 99%* of us don't have to worry about bears or other wildlife traipsing around our properties or the risk of being challenged to a duel. if you want a gun, an average handgun will suffice.

*note i did not say all.
__________________

__________________
KhanadaRhodes is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 07:56 AM   #543
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,684
Local Time: 01:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb8844 View Post
Essentially, if Zimmerman's story is true, he has committed no illegal act. The only eyewitness confirms his story.
Why is this being repeated over and over? This is not true. I hate that this has turned into a right left issue, but right media is just repeating this over and over. The eyewitness only saw Martin on top of Zimmerman hitting him, that only confirms a part of Zimmerman's story, this does not confirm anything regarding the instigation of the fight.
__________________
BVS is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 01:51 PM   #544
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 11:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVS View Post
Why is this being repeated over and over? This is not true. I hate that this has turned into a right left issue, but right media is just repeating this over and over. The eyewitness only saw Martin on top of Zimmerman hitting him, that only confirms a part of Zimmerman's story, this does not confirm anything regarding the instigation of the fight.
The key element would be the point where the instigation of a fight turned into a criminal act - my guess an assault (threatening act), followed by battery (physical contact).
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 02:07 PM   #545
Blue Crack Distributor
 
Headache in a Suitcase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Stateless
Posts: 56,425
Local Time: 02:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVS View Post
Why is this being repeated over and over? This is not true. I hate that this has turned into a right left issue, but right media is just repeating this over and over. The eyewitness only saw Martin on top of Zimmerman hitting him, that only confirms a part of Zimmerman's story, this does not confirm anything regarding the instigation of the fight.
The instigation of the fight does not matter when faced with the only question that does... did George Zimmerman fear for his life? If the jury believes that he did, then they can't convict him of murder.

I mean... they can, but they shouldn't.

If it was a stand your ground case, it would absolutely matter. It isn't. The defense is arguing self defense, not stand your ground. They'd lose a stand your ground case. They'll probably win this one.
__________________
Headache in a Suitcase is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 02:11 PM   #546
Blue Crack Distributor
 
Headache in a Suitcase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Stateless
Posts: 56,425
Local Time: 02:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KhanadaRhodes View Post
the one thing i've never got with any of that rationale is this: okay, you think it's your right to own a gun, fine. that is your legal right, i'm not arguing that or saying it isn't. but why does an ordinary, average citizen need an assault rifle? "because they're legal" is not a valid reason. no one needs a gun like that. a soldier at war? that's irrelevant. but an average citizen? no.

it isn't the 1700s anymore. 99%* of us don't have to worry about bears or other wildlife traipsing around our properties or the risk of being challenged to a duel. if you want a gun, an average handgun will suffice.

*note i did not say all.
You need a license to drive a car. You need a different license to drive a big truck or bus, or a motorcycle. Heck, you need a different license to drive most mopeds.

If you have price to be a threat to other drivers, be it through DWIs or repeated offenses, your license and right to drive a car is taken away.

Nobody debates that these rules make sense. Yet to try and put even that level of protection around guns, and everybody freaks the fuck out.

It's sickening.
__________________
Headache in a Suitcase is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 02:15 PM   #547
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,290
Local Time: 02:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase View Post

Nobody debates that these rules make sense. Yet to try and put even that level of protection around guns, and everybody freaks the fuck out.

It's sickening.
Except that they don't really or at least they don't according to polls. Most people agree that these are reasonable things. But the NRA doesn't and the Congress has been bought by political interests and is acting in direct opposition to the will of the people on this matter.
__________________
anitram is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 02:19 PM   #548
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
AEON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 12:11 PM
If the car was invented today - there's no way in the world we'd be okay with it. The idea that ordinary citizens can drive metal boxes around freely at deadly high speeds with only painted lines and electronic lights to "contain us" is pretty ludicrous - and so is the idea that an ordinary citizen can walk around patrolling his neighborhood with a pistol.
__________________
AEON is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 02:24 PM   #549
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 11:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase View Post
Yet to try and put even that level of protection around guns, and everybody freaks the fuck out.
Perhaps we are failing to address the real problem. A US city with the most stringent levels of gun control still has an enormous gun violence problem.

If we shifted attention from the "gun" to the "violence", maybe we would see some of the positive change we are after.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 02:37 PM   #550
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,984
Local Time: 02:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Pac_Mule View Post
Quite frankly if I lived in Sanford, Florida I myself would definitely be considering a concealed carry permit myself.
Would you take your gun to Target to grocery shop?

Apparently you also have to multitask there and patrol the neighborhood for undesirables, before and after grocery shopping.

I just wonder how many of his calls to the police non emergency line were about suspicious white people. Apparently every crime in that area was seemingly committed by black people?
__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 02:56 PM   #551
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,984
Local Time: 02:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb8844 View Post
Is carrying a gun illegal?
no.

Is following Trayvon silly?
yes

Is following Trayvon ILLEGAL?
no.

Is defending oneself illegal?
no.

Essentially, if Zimmerman's story is true, he has committed no illegal act. The only eyewitness confirms his story.

At the end of the day, Zimmerman is no more or less than a very stupid man with poor decision making abilities.

Then why didn't the judge grant an acquittal after the prosecution rested, when the defense argued for it? That it was a prima facie case of self defense, which is essentially what they argued. I know that hardly ever happens in criminal cases, but she could have.

What about the DNA evidence and the other evidence presented so far? What about Zimmerman himself telling the police that it didn't sound like him screaming? What about his various conflicting versions of the events? What about his injuries? He never got a single suture.
__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 02:56 PM   #552
Refugee
 
The_Pac_Mule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Vermont
Posts: 1,342
Local Time: 02:11 PM
Quote:
Would you take your gun to Target to grocery shop?
Probably not. But wouldn't the possibility of having to defend yourself or being able to stop a crime would be the same as pretty much anywhere else?

When I was in high school there was a robbery down the road from my house at a pharmacy and someone else there pulled out a gun and he just dropped everything and ran. The police were able to find him because of the shit he left.


Also, Vermont doesn't have a target
__________________
The_Pac_Mule is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 03:01 PM   #553
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,984
Local Time: 02:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Pac_Mule View Post

Probably not. But wouldn't the possibility of having to defend yourself or being able to stop a crime would be the same as pretty much anywhere else?

When I was in high school there was a robbery down the road from my house at a pharmacy and someone else there pulled out a gun and he just dropped everything and ran. The police were able to find him because of the shit he left.
I assume all this crime was in his neighborhood, not in a well lit Target and Target parking lot. Unless Sanford is the Newark of Florida.

Hypothetically you might have to defend yourself or stop a crime anywhere-so we should have guns in schools, nursing homes, hair salons, day care centers, malls, airports, etc.
__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 03:09 PM   #554
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 11:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsSpringsteen View Post
Then why didn't the judge grant an acquittal after the prosecution rested, when the defense argued for it? That it was a prima facie case of self defense, which is essentially what they argued. I know that hardly ever happens in criminal cases, but she could have.
Just a couple of things from the criminal process. First, in just about every criminal case, a defense counsel moves for acquittal after the prosecution rests its case. Some attorneys suggest that is malpractice to not make such a motion.

The motion only argues that the prosecution failed to establish a case on its face. It has nothing to do with the defense, as the defense has not presented its case at this point.

You are correct - a judge rarely grants this type of motion. Prosecutors rarely take cases to trial, and only do so if they feel very confident of a guilty verdict. If the judge granted the motion, it largely reflects on the lack of ability of a prosecutor (or the misguided rational for taking the case to trial).
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 03:12 PM   #555
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
AEON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 12:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nbcrusader View Post

If we shifted attention from the "gun" to the "violence", maybe we would see some of the positive change we are after.
I think that is a fantastic point - but that doesn't grab headlines, votes, election money...
__________________

__________________
AEON is offline  
 

Tags
george zimmerman, stand your ground, trayvon martin

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com