Trayvon Martin's murderer George Zimmerman is still a free man - Page 19 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-11-2012, 05:06 PM   #271
Blue Crack Distributor
 
corianderstem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Seattle
Posts: 63,714
Local Time: 06:19 PM
__________________

__________________
corianderstem is offline  
Old 04-11-2012, 06:14 PM   #272
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 03:19 AM
Second-degree murder, wow. More than what the original homicide investigator had been pressing for.
__________________

__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline  
Old 04-11-2012, 06:27 PM   #273
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 06:19 PM
Trayvon Martin's [I]accused[/I] murderer George Zimmerman is no longer a free man

I thought Prosecutor Corey did a very good job, she took a lot of questions.
She was unflappable.


The charges seem right to me.
Zimmerman brought this upon himself.
__________________
deep is offline  
Old 04-11-2012, 07:05 PM   #274
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Jive Turkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 13,646
Local Time: 09:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
Ok, I could have began with, A lot of people are saying,

I think arguments should stand (or fall) on their own merits.
Since when is conversing in the style you do considered appropriate? Do you walk around in real life doing the same thing? It's antisocial and borderline sociopathic.
__________________
Jive Turkey is offline  
Old 04-11-2012, 07:24 PM   #275
Blue Crack Addict
 
Moonlit_Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...
Posts: 19,258
Local Time: 08:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yolland View Post
Second-degree murder, wow. More than what the original homicide investigator had been pressing for.
Yeah, that's a pretty serious charge, definitely. But an appropriate one, I think.

I'm glad he's been charged.
__________________
Moonlit_Angel is online now  
Old 04-12-2012, 02:48 AM   #276
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 03:19 AM
Most lawyers I know were betting on manslaughter charges, based on the picture the fragmentary evidence leaked to the press appeared to paint of the incident. Of course, Corey had access to all kinds of info they didn't; she interviewed all the eyewitnesses, the girlfriend, had forensic audio analysis of the 911 calls, she would've seen the coroner's report as well as any documentation of Zimmerman's injuries at the time, etc.

Zimmerman's new lawyer has said he'll claim 'Stand Your Ground,' so that will entitle him to an evidentiary hearing, at which the judge could still opt to dismiss the charges rather than letting the case proceed to trial.




The way the coverage of this case has brought the rats out of the woodwork has really been something...I'm accustomed to semi-literate boneheads (from all parts of the spectrum), laughably inept concern trolls, and so forth popping up in comments sections of even relatively 'highbrow' publications, but I'm not used to seeing Stormfront-type, unabashedly crude racists there in the way they have been the last couple weeks.
__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline  
Old 04-12-2012, 07:20 AM   #277
Galeonbroad
 
Galeongirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Schoo Fishtank
Posts: 70,773
Local Time: 03:19 AM
I'm really glad he's finally caught. This has taken way too long already.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by GraceRyan View Post
And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
Galeongirl is offline  
Old 04-12-2012, 08:34 AM   #278
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,979
Local Time: 09:19 PM
I thought it would be manslaughter. There better be plenty of evidence that is not public knowledge yet, or this is overcharged and they'll never get a conviction.
__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 04-12-2012, 10:03 AM   #279
Blue Crack Addict
 
Liesje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the dog house
Posts: 19,557
Local Time: 09:19 PM
I'm not really understanding the "stand your ground" defense. I thought that applied more towards your own home/property? For example, being in Michigan, if my home is invaded I am technically allowed to use more force than is used on me (ie, I don't have to wait for the invader to attack me before using a weapon or sending my dog). But Zimmerman was out following Martin around and was not at his home/property, no? I've tried to stay out of this one and avoid all the speculation. Maybe I understand the "castle law" wrong...?
__________________
Liesje is offline  
Old 04-12-2012, 10:10 AM   #280
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,979
Local Time: 09:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liesje View Post
I'm not really understanding the "stand your ground" defense. I thought that applied more towards your own home/property? For example, being in Michigan, if my home is invaded I am technically allowed to use more force than is used on me (ie, I don't have to wait for the invader to attack me before using a weapon or sending my dog). But Zimmerman was out following Martin around and was not at his home/property, no? I've tried to stay out of this one and avoid all the speculation. Maybe I understand the "castle law" wrong...?
Stand your ground is no duty to retreat in any location, can be a public place. Castle is just the home. I looked it up myself because I was confused about it too.
__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 04-12-2012, 10:16 AM   #281
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,667
Local Time: 08:19 PM
"Stand your ground" takes 'Castle Law' one step further and applies it to basically anywhere. It's an extremely controversial law and I think this story(no matter what the actual details) shows how this law can be abused.
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 04-12-2012, 11:03 AM   #282
Blue Crack Addict
 
Liesje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the dog house
Posts: 19,557
Local Time: 09:19 PM
Weird. Wouldn't it be applied in reverse in this case? At least from what I gather, Z was the one creeping up on M, so wouldn't M be able to "stand his ground" against Z, following him around with a weapon?
__________________
Liesje is offline  
Old 04-12-2012, 12:12 PM   #283
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Jive Turkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 13,646
Local Time: 09:19 PM
I don't understand how manslaughter would be applicable here. If you pull out a gun and shoot someone, is it not implied that you were trying to kill them?
__________________
Jive Turkey is offline  
Old 04-12-2012, 12:47 PM   #284
Blue Crack Addict
 
mikal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Black Lodge
Posts: 24,902
Local Time: 08:19 PM
Sounds like Zimmerman is innocent to me. I doubt he even shot the kid.
__________________
mikal is online now  
Old 04-12-2012, 04:05 PM   #285
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 03:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsSpringsteen View Post
I thought it would be manslaughter. There better be plenty of evidence that is not public knowledge yet, or this is overcharged and they'll never get a conviction.
In FL, manslaughter is automatically a lesser included offense to a second-degree murder charge. So even if a jury didn't agree it was murder, they could still convict Zimmerman of manslaughter instead. (Alternatively, he might also be able to get a plea deal reducing the charge to manslaughter.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liesje View Post
Weird. Wouldn't it be applied in reverse in this case? At least from what I gather, Z was the one creeping up on M, so wouldn't M be able to "stand his ground" against Z, following him around with a weapon?
FL's self-defense laws do state that the 'Stand Your Ground' defense is not available to anyone who provokes violence against himself, however, A) the statute nowhere defines "provokes," so prosecutors have to make that case, and furthermore B) there's a qualifier that even a provoker may still claim SYG if he reasonably considered the retaliatory violence to threaten death or grave bodily harm (g.b.h. = loss of limb or the like, NOT bruises etc.) and had no other way to avoid that fate.

But yeah, this problem seems to me to be present in so many of the SYG cases I've read about now--I'll read the summary of what happened and think, Well, okay, sounds to me like the victim was just doing what any reasonable person might've done in response to what this idiot defendant did first, so doesn't this really just boil down to 'whoever shoots first walks?'
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jive Turkey View Post
I don't understand how manslaughter would be applicable here. If you pull out a gun and shoot someone, is it not implied that you were trying to kill them?
That's not how manslaughter works in the US. While different states' definitions do vary, I don't think there are any where the mere fact that you knowingly pulled your gun and shot would make manslaughter inapplicable. Very often manslaughter cases are "crimes of passion," for example, you'd just then discovered that your victim had been sleeping with your wife, which could cause a reasonable person such loss of control as to mitigate culpability somewhat. Or, more generally, lethal acts that resulted from an extremely "reckless" or "wanton" mindset, rather than the "depraved" mindset FL law explicitly associates with second-degree murder. (Not being a FL lawyer, I don't know exactly how they customarily interpret "depraved," but the gist of it seems to be that even though you didn't plan to kill in advance, you still showed, in the moment, a cold and callous disregard for the life of your victim, as opposed to being solely driven by blind rage, blind panic, or whatever else might render it manslaughter.) Manslaughter is still a very serious offense, for example under FL law Zimmerman could serve up to 30 years if convicted of it, especially since his victim was under 18.
__________________

__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline  
 

Tags
george zimmerman, stand your ground, trayvon martin

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com