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Old 04-02-2012, 09:28 PM   #226
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Maybe its time for black Americans to stop automatically pulling the lever next to Democrat. Make someone earn your vote.
Wow, what an asinine statement. Unfortunately, not surprising though.
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Old 04-02-2012, 10:00 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
Maybe its time for black Americans to stop automatically pulling the lever next to Democrat. Make someone earn your vote.
I could say the same thing about white people who blindly vote Republican because of such simplistic reasoning ("they're for family values and I am, too"), but hey.

Certainly the issue mentioned in that article is one worth discussing and dealing with, it's equally as tragic as what happened here. But let's not sit there and complain about people making political hay out of the Zimmerman/Trayvon situation (which I wholeheartedly agree was and is disgusting) only to turn around and try and do the same with what was discussed in that article.
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Old 04-02-2012, 11:14 PM   #228
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I could say the same thing about white people who blindly vote Republican
Ther' takin' r jobs!
I find it a little ironic that Indy is calling for black people to think for themselves, yet he's pretty much a walking right wing talking point

Though I find it difficult to agree with an article that points to "the importance of marriage", he makes a good point about the Emmett Till comparisons. The first time I saw that, I thought "You've got to be fucking kidding me". It's a minor detail though and I haven't seen it presented all that much
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Old 04-02-2012, 11:22 PM   #229
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Old 04-03-2012, 12:17 AM   #230
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I have no issue with Juan Williams article. In fact I've been pondering many of the same sentiments.

I'll tell you what I do have an issue with is you bringing it up. I don't get the sense that what's going on in black communities around this country is near and dear to your heart and you're oh so torn up about it.

I deal with what Williams talks about this every single day with the students I teach, and for you to use it for the usual political point scoring is really aggravating.
"Make someone earn your vote." I thought that seemed pretty clear that I'm not saying blindly vote for Republicans. But if you've voted a one party ticket for 50 years and have shit schools, shit neighborhoods and shit job opportunities to show for it... maybe it's time for some real change.

I'll accept that this is an emotional issue but you have no right to make the assumptions you make. I don't argue against the minimum wage because it affects me but because it affects entry level jobs (disproportionately affecting young blacks). I don't argue against teacher unions and for school vouchers because it affects me but because it affects those that can't escape bad public schools (again, disproportionately minorities). I don't argue for mandatory sentencing for drug and violent crimes because they are prevalent where I live but because every American has the right to safely walk the streets of their neighborhood. I don't argue against abortion-on-demand because I'm anti-woman but because I think each human being is precious in the eyes of the Lord. (blacks make up 12% of the population but account for 35% of abortions, a stat Juan Williams didn't include in his article but I would). And I don't post about runaway government spending and the dangers of government dependency because I hate the poor but because of the terrible waste of human capital that results from these mismanaged programs.

Now I agree, this shouldn't be about politics but can you name one Democrat that would make the arguments I just made? These are conservative ideas. Neither I nor conservatives claim to have all the answers but surely, after 50 years, we can see what doesn't work and what is in fact exacerbating our problems.

No you're right. "what's going on in black communities around this country" isn't the slightest concern to middle-class white conservative Christians such as myself. How foolish of me to think that concern for "what's going on in black communities around this country" could be expressed in any way except through bullhorns, "no justice, no peace" signs and voting the progressive social and economic agenda.
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Old 04-03-2012, 02:52 AM   #231
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And the overwhelming majority of those black people are killed by other black people. Where is the march for them?
As Ta-Nehisi Coates pointed out in reply to Williams, five minutes on Google would've turned up recent coverage of numerous marches addressing precisely that issue, from cities across the country: Chicago, Harlem, Newark, Pittsburgh, Gary, Brooklyn, Saginaw...and that's just the initial search hits, and just coverage from the last 2 years. Dozens of US cities also have black-community-based organizations working to address gang violence in their neighborhoods; PBS is currently streaming the award-winning documentary The Interrupters, about one such organization based out of Chicago's South Side.

None of that ever makes national news, of course. But that doesn't excuse Williams' laziness in not taking a few minutes to answer his own (rhetorical) question. More to the point, none of it has anything to do with the Trayvon Martin case or why it matters. George Zimmerman has yet to be arrested and it's entirely possible that he never will be. Had he been charged, none of us would've ever heard of him. And if he is ultimately put on trial, that will only have happened because of the spotlight all these so-called "race-baiters" have turned on the case. Trayvon Martin doesn't represent the fear that your son will become a drug dealer, or an assault-weapon-toting gangster, or a permanently unemployed high school dropout. There certainly are some black parents (and some white parents, too) for whom one or more of those truly is a priority concern (and apparently, for some social conservatives, those are the ONLY legitimate fears ANY black parents are allowed to have for their sons). Rather, he represents the fear that some stranger (perhaps one in uniform), armed with a gun and the common tendency to automatically register a young black man as a potential threat, might put an end to your son's life in a moment of panicked confusion or paranoia. Or more "benignly," just the pain of knowing that in all likelihood your son will be repeatedly pulled over, stopped and frisked, blinded by a spotlight for having done nothing at all but be black in the wrong place at the wrong time, an alienating and humiliating experience you're powerless to protect him from.

I find the very phrase "black-on-black crime" problematic. Most violent crime in the US is intraracial, period; for example, most murdered white men (46% of all murder victims, FBI 2010) are killed by other white men (32% of all murderers, FBI 2010)--most often men who lived in close geographical proximity to them, most often in neighborhoods characterized by poverty, high youth unemployment, low academic achievement, and drugs. The same is true of most "black-on-black" murders. Yet no one speaks of "white-on-white crime," as if white men who kill other white men were driven to do so by their pathologically white nature, or contempt for their victim's shared whiteness.
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Old 04-03-2012, 03:01 AM   #232
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Wow, what an asinine statement. Unfortunately, not surprising though.
So you think it's a poor response, so what. Play the ball, make an argument.
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Old 04-03-2012, 08:32 AM   #233
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So you think it's a poor response, so what. Play the ball, make an argument.
Wasn't it just a line meant for trolling? It's straight out of the hard right play book. Get really upset and claim race baiting as much as you can, but do so while you constantly lump a whole race into one mindless group of voters.
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Old 04-03-2012, 08:39 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
Juan Williams: The Trayvon Martin Tragedies - WSJ.com

Maybe its time for black Americans to stop automatically pulling the lever next to Democrat. Make someone earn your vote.
It would behoove you to read this response before just assuming that Juan Williams is correct in his assumption that there is no black outrage.

Why Don't Black People Protest 'Black-on-Black Violence'? - Ta-Nehisi Coates - National - The Atlantic

Quote:
There is a kind of sincere black person who really would like to see even more outrage about violence in black communities. I don't think outrage will do it at this point, but I respect the sincere feeling.

And then there are pundits who write more than they read, and talk more than they listen, and prefer an easy creationism to a Google search.
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Old 04-03-2012, 09:53 AM   #235
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This is horrible. Trayvon was also unarmed. So why in the hell would some dumbass murder an innocent child? I also think that people should stop saying "he got shot cuz he had his hood up". That's not the reason. It's just some dumb racist that had to take his anger out on someone else.
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Old 04-03-2012, 08:17 PM   #236
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I'll accept that this is an emotional issue but you have no right to make the assumptions you make.
All I've got to go on in terms of assumptions is how you present yourself in this forum. I don't know the "real" you.
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Old 04-03-2012, 08:38 PM   #237
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When NBC appeared to make the conscious decision to orient its news programming in a more spin-based direction to compete with the sensationalist Fox News, I think they threw out the fact-checking baby with the bathwater. Really sloppy shit.
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Old 04-04-2012, 02:49 PM   #238
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NBC is a desperate organization in general, that much is obvious.
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Old 04-04-2012, 06:07 PM   #239
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Yeah, they just hired Sarah Palin to try to beat Katie on GMA. And they hired Seacrest to do the Olympics and to probably eventually replace Matt Lauer.
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Old 04-04-2012, 06:15 PM   #240
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I saw clips of her appearance on there on "The Daily Show" last night.

As if morning shows weren't annoying enough already. Glad I missed out on that mess.
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