Torture/Waterboarding: Discussion/Debate Thread

[Irvine511]

i rest my case.

dbs

you're right. this White House would never, ever say something that is untrue or defend it's poor policies with lies and fabrications.

 

[anitram]

I wonder if diamond realizes that no matter who is president next, they won't be a torture lover....

 

[U2isthebest]

I wonder if diamond realizes that no matter who is president next, they won't be a torture lover....

Damn, and if there was ever a mark of a good leader, it's clearly a massive erection for the inhumane physical and/or mental treatment of another human being. I guess we're out of luck. Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Pol Pot, who wouldn't want to be in company with fine leaders like them?

 

[diamond]

I wonder if diamond realizes that no matter who is president next, they won't be a torture lover....

nobody is a torture lover now.

there are a few here though that are unwitting terrorist enablers.

dbs

 

[Irvine511]

nobody is a torture lover now.

there are a few here though that are unwitting terrorist enablers.

dbs

if you don't torture, you enable the terrorists?

are you sure you want to say that?

 

[onebloodonelife]

nobody is a torture lover now.

there are a few here though that are unwitting terrorist enablers.

dbs

Really? So, you're condoning the "if you're not with us, you're against us," everyone who's opposed to the president is an enemy mentality?

 

[martha]

there are a few here though that are unwitting terrorist enablers.

dbs

You're full of shit diamond.

 

[U2isthebest]

His buddy Mitt would agree with him. Did you hear his rousing, contradictory, and altogether lacking in reason speech yesterday?


http://www.politicswest.com/2008_election/19356/transcript_romneys_campaign_suspension_speech

 

[onebloodonelife]

'I must put something in context. America is unique in the history of the world. In the history of the world, whenever there has been conflict, the nation that wins takes land from the nation that loses. One nation in history, and this during the last century, laid down hundreds of thousands of lives and took no land. No land from Germany, no land from Japan, no land from Korea. America is unique in the sacrifice it has made for liberty, for itself and for freedom loving people around the world.' The best ally peace has ever known, and will ever know, is a strong America.

That comes from some other guy he referenced...but, I'm pretty sure we had a heavy hand in taking land away from Germany (not for ourselves, but we helped shape it nonetheless) after WWI, which then lead to the animosity Germany had for us.

And, even if we didn't take land, we took other things and emasculated countries by taking away their armies.

 

[U2isthebest]

'I must put something in context. America is unique in the history of the world. In the history of the world, whenever there has been conflict, the nation that wins takes land from the nation that loses. One nation in history, and this during the last century, laid down hundreds of thousands of lives and took no land. No land from Germany, no land from Japan, no land from Korea. America is unique in the sacrifice it has made for liberty, for itself and for freedom loving people around the world.' The best ally peace has ever known, and will ever know, is a strong America.

That comes from some other guy he referenced...but, I'm pretty sure we had a heavy hand in taking land away from Germany (not for ourselves, but we helped shape it nonetheless) after WWI, which then lead to the animosity Germany had for us.

And, even if we didn't take land, we took other things and emasculated countries by taking away their armies.

And of course, we NEVER took land here that didn't truly belong to us by taking it away from the Native Americans who were here hundreds of years before us. We didn't continually push them west promising to take care of them, while letting hundreds, possibly thousands, of them die because of our inhumane treatment....oh wait. Glad Mitt knows his history.

 

[diamond]

gullible amoralist nihilists.

dbs

 

[martha]

And of course, we NEVER took land here that didn't truly belong to us by taking it away from the Native Americans who were here hundreds of years before us. We didn't continually push them west promising to take care of them, while letting hundreds, possibly thousands, of them die because of our inhumane treatment....oh wait. Glad Mitt knows his history.

They have their casinos now. Isn't that enough?

 

[U2isthebest]

Whoa there Diamond. Way to wound our confidence in our respective opinions. I'm sure we all see the light now.

 

[BVS]

Diamond's right everyone, go out an torture someone or you are enabling terrorists... It saves lives. It's true, it's on the internets.

 

[U2isthebest]

They have their casinos now. Isn't that enough?

Hey, casinos make everything better, right? The pain and suffering of cruelty and death is easily wiped away with money! It's always been the American way!

 

[Diemen]

His buddy Mitt would agree with him. Did you hear his rousing, contradictory, and altogether lacking in reason speech yesterday?


http://www.politicswest.com/2008_election/19356/transcript_romneys_campaign_suspension_speech

That speech is all sorts of crazy:

"The development of a child is enhanced by having a mother and father. Such a family is the ideal for the future of the child and for the strength of a nation. I wonder how it is that unelected judges, like some in my state of Massachusetts, are so unaware of this reality, so oblivious to the millennia of recorded history. It is time for the people of America to fortify marriage through Constitutional amendment, so that liberal judges cannot continue to attack it.

"Europe is facing a demographic disaster. That is the inevitable product of weakened faith in the Creator, failed families, disrespect for the sanctity of human life and eroded morality.

I don't even know where to start.

 

[U2isthebest]

That speech is all sorts of crazy:



I don't even know where to start.

I love how he talked about the importance of keeping God in our country's laws, morals, and values and then talked about how nations like Iran could destroy democracy by wanting to put religion in government. Way to talk out of both sides of your mouth, Mitt.

 

[Diemen]

I wonder who his speechwriter is.

 

[Irvine511]

weren't Jesus and the Devil brothers?

 

[onebloodonelife]

And of course, we NEVER took land here that didn't truly belong to us by taking it away from the Native Americans who were here hundreds of years before us. We didn't continually push them west promising to take care of them, while letting hundreds, possibly thousands, of them die because of our inhumane treatment....oh wait. Glad Mitt knows his history.

He only wanted to be President, obviously, that doesn't require knowing your history.

 

[U2isthebest]

He only wanted to be President, obviously, that doesn't require knowing your history.

Well, when our current president thinks we have an "administrative" branch, I guess you're right.

 

[onebloodonelife]

Well, when our current president thinks we have an "administrative" branch, I guess you're right.

So sad, really...

 

[U2isthebest]

So sad, really...

I happen to have a Bushisms desk calendar, and January 23rd's was "You see, the Senate wants to take away some of the powers of the administrative branch." -Washington D.C. ;September 19, 2002.

 

[No spoken words]

So sad, really...

It left sad in the dust years ago.

To me, it's an endless source of bewilderment and frustration.....and some modicum of embarrassment as well.

 

[U2isthebest]

It left sad in the dust years ago.

To me, it's an endless source of bewilderment and frustration.....and some modicum of embarrassment as well.

I feel a deep sense of shame and incredulous wonder at how we could've possibly allowed this man to become president.

 

[No spoken words]

I feel a deep sense of shame and incredulous wonder at how we could've possibly allowed this man to become president.

I felt it when he was elected the first time, but, the jury was at least still out.....but his re-election is a dark and confusing chapter in this country's history.

I honestly avoid talking about it for the most part, because I get too riled up. It's that frustrating to me.

 

[U2isthebest]

I felt it when he was elected the first time, but, the jury was at least still out.....but his re-election is a dark and confusing chapter in this country's history.

I honestly avoid talking about it for the most part, because I get too riled up. It's that frustrating to me.

I do too. I was only 12 during the 2000 election, but even I could see that something very wrong and very dishonest was going on in that Florida debacle.

 

[No spoken words]

I do too. I was only 12 during the 2000 election, but even I could see that something very wrong and very dishonest was going on in that Florida debacle.

Well, I just sensed a man with no intellectual curiosity, and no world view, from a dynastic family, trying to become President. I still cannot ever get past the fact that a man who had never left this fucking country was elected President. And I know that's a myopic thing, there are myriad reasons to elect someone and global traveler is not high on the list....but I felt it spoke volumes about the man, and still do. Fuck.

The whole Florida circus is a thread unto itself.

 

[U2isthebest]

Well, I just sensed a man with no intellectual curiosity, and no world view, from a dynastic family, trying to become President. I still cannot ever get past the fact that a man who had never left this fucking country was elected President. And I know that's a myopic thing, there are myriad reasons to elect someone and global traveler is not high on the list....but I felt it spoke volumes about the man, and still do. Fuck.

The whole Florida circus is a thread unto itself.

He did tell the L.A. Times on the campaign trail in 2000 that he doesn't believe in being analytical. I believe he followed that with, "I don't really think about myself much...about why I do things." When I read that, I knew why we're screwed.

 

[No spoken words]

It's hard to blame him, solely, though. He had to be fucking elected. People had to look at him and say "That man should lead this country". How the fuck did that happen the 2nd time????

I need to relax.