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Old 02-04-2008, 03:01 PM   #106
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Originally posted by phillyfan26


Done.
Thanks.
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Old 02-04-2008, 03:25 PM   #107
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I don't think Jesus' aim is to micro manage our free will, liberals do.

dbs
So all you'll have to do is apologize for your support of torturing another human being, and you're off the hook. Right?
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Old 02-04-2008, 03:30 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond


I don't think Jesus' aim is to micro manage our free will, liberals do.

dbs
Diamond, where do you come up with this crap? It's a complete lie...

I guess it's easy to live with yourself, if you just actually don't know any better.
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Old 02-04-2008, 04:36 PM   #109
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Because I can:










Aaaaanyway, I'll just echo the sentiments of Irvine, Diemen, BVS, etc. Torture = Not Christian, nor is it American.
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Old 02-04-2008, 05:12 PM   #110
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i don't give a shit about torture being non-Christian or non-American.

it. doesn't. work.
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Old 02-04-2008, 05:15 PM   #111
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That too.
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Old 02-04-2008, 06:03 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond


I don't think Jesus' aim is to micro manage our free will, liberals do.

dbs
Nice dodge. Now how about actually answering the question. It's a yes or no:

Would Jesus would be ok with torturing our enemies?
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Old 02-04-2008, 06:54 PM   #113
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Again, Motive.

Thou shall not kill

Some Christians take this to mean ever.

But most take this to mean thou shall not murder or take innocent life. Those Christians can support governments that seeks justice through capital punishment. They can fight in armies when their home, family or way of life are threatened. And they recognize that cruel things happen in war, things that would never be tolerated otherwise.

Thou shall not kill
Now who's being the "fundamentalist"?
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Old 02-04-2008, 06:57 PM   #114
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This addresses torture how?

I love how the most far right of this board are avoiding the real issue by miles. Twisting, turning, dodging anything to get out of this corner they've painted themselves in.
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Old 02-04-2008, 07:03 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally posted by INDY500
Again, Motive.

Thou shall not kill

Some Christians take this to mean ever.

But most take this to mean thou shall not murder or take innocent life. Those Christians can support governments that seeks justice through capital punishment. They can fight in armies when their home, family or way of life are threatened. And they recognize that cruel things happen in war, things that would never be tolerated otherwise.

Thou shall not kill
Now who's being the "fundamentalist"?
Again, a complete dodge. Would Jesus be ok with torturing our enemies? Yes or no.

I suspect many of you know the answer, but are unwilling to face it because it doesn't jive with the (false) reality you've created, where torture is necessary to get information, and it's fine because they would do so much worse to us.
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Old 02-04-2008, 07:07 PM   #116
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Love your enemy...

Maybe some of you are having a problem with what the definition of 'love' is.

Maybe 'love' in right wing circles mean make them feel like they are drowning.

Ya'lls bedrooms should be interesting places.
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Old 02-04-2008, 07:08 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally posted by INDY500
Again, Motive.

Thou shall not kill

Some Christians take this to mean ever.

But most take this to mean thou shall not murder or take innocent life. Those Christians can support governments that seeks justice through capital punishment.
As far as I'm aware, the Catholic Church is adamantly anti-capital punishment. And as far as I'm aware, Catholics are by far the largest group of Christians (outnumbering all Protestant denominations by a margin of more than 2:1).

So I'm not sure how you concluded that MOST Christians support any such thing.
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Old 02-04-2008, 07:27 PM   #118
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I think it's an American Christian thing only, in that area where it somehow, somewhere in your history faith got heavily twisted in with patriotism/nationalism. Pro-war, pro-death penalty etc - I know that your normal, average Christian church in Sydney would be the last place you'd find those traits, but I get the feeling that a Christian church in some parts of the US would be the first place to look...

I don't see any hypocrisy between the Christian 'thou shalt not kill', and someone doing what they need to do in certain scenarios. The difference is in the championing of death. That's where the hypocrisy is. I don't see how that matches up with the Christian faith at all. Not for anything. Especially not for a flag.
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Old 02-04-2008, 07:36 PM   #119
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What do you mean by "the championing of death"?

I'd be more impressed with the 'WWJD' arguments if they were coming from self-professed absolute pacifists, or at least people who are taking the time to elaborate why (e.g.) going to war is morally permissible in certain circumstances whereas torture never is. If you're going to frame it as a religious argument, that is.
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Old 02-04-2008, 07:45 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally posted by yolland
What do you mean by "the championing of death"?

I'd be more impressed with the 'WWJD' arguments if they were coming from self-professed absolute pacifists, or at least people who are taking the time to elaborate why (e.g.) going to war is morally permissible in certain circumstances whereas torture never is. If you're going to frame it as a religious argument, that is.
I think there are times for war, be in defending yourself, or in order to stop genocides...

Torture doesn't fit in either one of those...

Irvine is right, the fact that it doesn't work, should be enough.

But it is interesting when those that want to bring this country closer and closer to a theocracy, those that speak that their faith guides their vote and their moral compasses, don't let it guide their compasses when it comes to this and so many other issues.
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