torture, Jesus, Allah, Gonzales, and the GWOT

[Irvine511]

in light of the Gonzales testamony and the spiraling evidence we now have of the extent (and systemic nature) to which American troops toture in prisons in Iraq, i think that one of the remarkable features of this whole disgusting phenomenon is just how anti-Muslim these techniques are: sexual humiliation, rape, the force-feeding of pork, forcible pouring of liquor down an inmate's throat, wrapping someone in the Israeli flag, forcing inmates to kneel and pray and then kicking them in the head, and now placing duct tape over the mouth of someone reciting the Koran.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A51726-2005Jan5.html


I also came across this first-hand sworn Red Cross deposition of an interrogation in Abu Ghraib:


They took me inside the building and started to scream at me. They stripped me naked, they asked me, "Do you pray to Allah?" I said, "Yes." They said, "Fuck you" and "Fuck him." ... Someone else asked me, "Do you believe in anything?" I said to him, "I believe in Allah." So he said, "But I believe in torture and I will torture you. When I go home to my country, I will ask whoever comes after me to torture you." Then they handcuffed me and hung me to the bed. They ordered me to curse Islam and because they started to hit my broken leg, I cursed my religion. They ordered me to thank Jesus I am alive. And I did what they ordered me. This is against my belief. They left me hang from the bed and after a while I lost consciousness."



of course most US soldiers are brave men and women who would never dream of such a thing, but we're kidding ourselves if we think Abu Ghraib was an abberation. in the process of conducting this war, are we becoming that which we hope to destroy?

 

[Dreadsox]

#1 Any evidence Gonzo pushed to see soldiers raped.
#2 Any Evidence that soldiers besides AG have engaged in rape ect.
#3 Any proof that the White House KNEW IT WAS GOING ON?
#4 Any eviodence to show that they did not disipline the soldiers who acted in violation of the standing orders in this area?

#5 Why isn't this in war?

 

[Macfistowannabe]

I for one am pretty uncomfortable with Gonzales' stance on torture tactics. It's so demeaning to our country, and he will be smeared because of his stance. Irvine pretty much made my point already. There's no way in hell I can approve of the torture tactics being used. Still, I would like to see more evidence and proof for clarity's sake.

 

[U2democrat]

One of my many problems with torture is that the info you get from it is not reliable. The subject will willingly say most anything to make it stop.

 

[cardosino]

http://www.cfba.info/analyst/Gonzales_letter.html

 

[BonosSaint]

#1 Any evidence Gonzo pushed to see soldiers raped.
#2 Any Evidence that soldiers besides AG have engaged in rape ect.
#3 Any proof that the White House KNEW IT WAS GOING ON?
#4 Any eviodence to show that they did not disipline the soldiers who acted in violation of the standing orders in this area?

#5 Why isn't this in war?

We know for a fact bad things happened in the prison. What discipline occurred and how high the knowledge went is at this point speculation. Based on past performance, I'm not inclined to give the administration the benefit of the doubt for honesty to the American people.

What is your opinion of the integrity of the election process here, let alone Iraq?

I'm disgusted with both parties. After the election, I changed my registration to independent. Don't want to be associated with either party.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

I know the feeling, Saint. I was debating whether or not I would even vote in the 2004 election. I am disgusted with the torture, and am disgusted with the lives lost in the war. I'm also disgusted with the beheadings, and I'm disgusted with the anti-Americanism that is going on both inside and outside of the country.

(My word of choice "anti-Americanism" is referring to those who turn against their own country and threaten to leave it because their side is not in power, those who refuse to lend us a hand, yet went to war with Congo [as in France - more interested in being imperialists in Africa, more interested in cash, and more interested in being Iraq's biggest trading partner than any other UN, than overthrowing a dictatorship governed by millions of merciless murders and rapes], and those who simply want us to fail in Iraq, whether they are Americans or not)

I'd like to be optimistic about the situation, but both sides have pissed me off quite a bit. If I may use a smilie:

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

UNBELIEVABLE

http://reuters.myway.com/article/20...1_N10209253_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-IRAQ-ABUSE-DC.html

FORT HOOD, Texas (Reuters) - A lawyer for Charles Graner, accused ringleader in the Iraq prisoner abuse scandal, on Monday compared piling naked prisoners into pyramids to cheerleader shows and said leashing inmates was also acceptable prisoner control.

Graner's attorney said piling naked prisoners into pyramids and leading them by a leash were acceptable methods of prisoner control. He compared this to pyramids made by cheerleaders at sports events and parents putting tethers on toddlers.

"Don't cheerleaders all over America form pyramids six to eight times a year. Is that torture?" Guy Womack, Graner's attorney, said in opening arguments to the 10-member U.S. military jury at the reservist's court-martial.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

That's all the evidence I need. Gonzales is anything but impressive. He disgusts me.

 

[A_Wanderer]

UNBELIEVABLE

http://reuters.myway.com/article/20...1_N10209253_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-IRAQ-ABUSE-DC.html

FORT HOOD, Texas (Reuters) - A lawyer for Charles Graner, accused ringleader in the Iraq prisoner abuse scandal, on Monday compared piling naked prisoners into pyramids to cheerleader shows and said leashing inmates was also acceptable prisoner control.

Graner's attorney said piling naked prisoners into pyramids and leading them by a leash were acceptable methods of prisoner control. He compared this to pyramids made by cheerleaders at sports events and parents putting tethers on toddlers.

"Don't cheerleaders all over America form pyramids six to eight times a year. Is that torture?" Guy Womack, Graner's attorney, said in opening arguments to the 10-member U.S. military jury at the reservist's court-martial.

Legal Genius, as I said before it will not be long before these blood suckers are telling the court that people pay good money to be treated the way those prisoners were.

 

[pax]

I know that wasn't funny, but somehow, it is.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

Womack's defense is hideous.

"Don't cheerleaders all over America form pyramids six to eight times a year. Is that torture?"

It's sick, twisted, and inhumane to force people - including prisoners - to act unaccordingly to their culture. They aren't just treating them like women, they are forcing them to act like them. I hope this guy will be out of a job in no time. I don't wish that on too many people, but he is obviously defending the ridicule that has no place in a decent government.

His comment is completely irrational, except for anyone out there who grew up as the family pet.

 

[drhark]

Come on, he's a defense lawyer.

 

[drhark]

He could have made a rhyme out of it, a la Johnie Cochran:
They did it in cheerleadin'
But didn't leave him bleedin'

 

[deep]

i guess it depend which section you rent your dvds from

I know that wasn't funny, but somehow, it is.

are cheerleaders forced to masterbate, first?

 

[drhark]

Only in certain videos

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

FORT HOOD, Texas - Spc. Charles Graner Jr., the reputed ringleader of a band of rogue guards at Abu Ghraib, was found guilty Friday of abusing detainees in the first trial arising from the scandal at the Baghdad prison.

Graner, a 36-year-old reservist from Uniontown, Pa., was convicted on conspiring with other guards to maltreat prisoners. The remainder of the verdict on four other charges was still being read.

The jury of four Army officers and six senior enlisted men deliberated less than five hours.

The case next goes to the sentencing phase. Graner, once a guard at a maximum-security prison in his home state, faces up to 17 1/2 years behind bars.

 

[drhark]

up to 17 1/2 years.

A little harsh when compared to his actions but probably a little lenient when you consider the exponential harm his actions have done to his country.

 

[verte76]

I'm not exactly going to cry for the guy. What he did was horrific. I just hope no one ever thinks this is OK to do in the future.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Failure in leadership, that entire chain of command from the brigadier general down should burn.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

I'm not exactly going to cry for the guy. What he did was horrific. I just hope no one ever thinks this is OK to do in the future.

Agreed. Let him be an example to prevent this kind of vile behavior in the future.